Shaman

Franzen and who else?

Pulkkinen with an assist on the third goal.

I have a feeling Lidstrom, Hudler and Zetterberg all have great games 5-2 Z with 2, Hudler with 1+1, and Lids with 3 assists, Tatar with a point (won't call it goal or assist), Bert with a strong night. I hope my new crystal ball works.

If these two players don't make you excited for this team's future nothing will.

They live by the idea of 'the Refs will never call everything' so no they will let their first line or possibly second worry about the trivial matter of scoring while the rest of their team commits penalties.

Heres the issue though, the more balanced your scoring the better your chances are in the playoffs, thats a lot of the reason the Wings lost in 09 you had players like Hossa that just disappeared which allowed teams to focus on Zetterberg and Datsyuk. This is also why is its better to keep D and Z separate, it forces teams to choose who to put their best defenders against and it gives the other more time and space to make things happen.

Because the operative term in this discussion is THIS season. This season hes playing in a second line role, getting power play time and playing with better players, but his production levels have not changed.

My point has been if you read my earlier posts was that the Wings would move Zetterberg to the second line as center and trade Flip for an offensive winger.

And you're retarded if you think I was talking about the playoffs. I was talking about players who play on the top 16 teams in the NHL (ie the playoff teams), not about playoff stats. We were changing the sample size to disinclude teams that were in the bottom 14. This is purely regular season stats of the top 16 teams this season as it stands so far. Reading comprehension is your friend.

Zetterberg... Ps 4 out of 32 is a 12.5% difference, thats more than a little bit where I come from.

Hes 28th out of 32 hes not really with them, hes at the bottom end on a team that LEADS the league in goals for. Its not like the team hes on isn't scoring and hes suffering a lack of assists because of it. Hes not even the second best center on the Wings team, hes third. So my argument has a lot of merit, his point production isn't on par with the average 2nd line center on a decent team, which goes back to my original point through all of this, hes an top end third line center with great offensive upside.

Takeaways isnt an offensive stat, Faceoff % and power play points would be better indicators. So of the two stats you used to make your point 28th in points means hes better than only 4 centers in this group, if hes tied 16th in goals that means hes near the bottom in assists which is more of his game than goal scoring. Also theres no ties in this, after 82 games there can be ties, but with differences in games played who has the most goals in least number of games would be 16 follow logically enough by the person with the next fewest.

Those are the borderline teams, I was talking about Columbus, Florida, Edmonton, New York Islanders, etc, teams that have been bad year in and out and that have almost zero depth outside of a top line. PS Anaheim is sitting in 8th. As for Spezza he hasn't been the same without Heatly, and Roy I really don't know about him, I like him a lot, but that 80 point season seems more and more like a fluke, and that hes a career 60 point player.

Well as its been stated Flip isn't even the second best center on the team, I would have to agree with Gcom and say the Wings trade him for a scoring winger, since Zetterberg is better in every facet of the game the Wings upgrade at center, and balance the scoring better on both lines. I really don't understand why it such an sin to you that Flip just isn't that great offensively. Oh and if you give me that line 'well hes one of the best 2nd line centers... bla bla bla' hes 44th in faceoff %, 42 in scoring among centers, 43rd in power play points behind even HUDLER (Z and D I am positive you were the one saying last year that him not getting PP time was why his point totals weren't as good as they could be). If the Wings were a middle of the pack team that finished in the middle of the pack and that was acceptable then these stats would be just fine for a second line player but, there are only 16 teams that make the playoffs 32 centers on play of teams, the other 28 centers shouldn't even be in this conversation.

I'm not, but I can see why some would, so far he hasn't been playing the way he was before he was drafted and its easy to get disappointed.

I am not saying trade him for a bag of pucks, but I am saying there are better options for a second line center.

Flip is a very very streaky player, why do people act as if this is some massive revelation?

Pulkkinen's defensive game has gone to a much higher level from what I have heard and seen over the last few months, he goes down low and gets the puck, hes working on his play making and hes even throwing his body around, I think its a toss up for who is the higher prospect at this point, Jarnkrok still has the defensive edge, but Pulkkinen's offensive ability and his willingness to work on weak areas of his game makes him pretty damn exciting too.

And in a couple weeks he will have 1 or 2 points in 8 games and he will drop again. There is a pattern here you are really trying hard to not see.

I think Detroit goes after a legit second line center in the offseason, with the cap going up and players retiring their should be enough space to bring someone in to balance the scoring better than it is now.

But again, Letang and Byfuligens stats are inflated and do not reflect their DEFENSIVE play.

So I really don't see your point, your first post was to the effect that his plus minus is low so he shouldn't be such a slam dunk choice for the award for best defenseman, I counter with +/- isn't a great indicator and that Letang and Byfuligen have high +/- because of circumstances other than defensive play, you agree, I really don't see what you're trying to argue anymore.

If the person knows anything about hockey they don't talk about plus minus as a main point, they point out how hes always in position, hes always making the right play at the right time and how hes playing against the other teams top players and still racking up points and playing great defense. His plus minus is good, but its definitely not what people who know about hockey look at to say 'Lidstrom is one of the best ever.' And from this post and your past posts you really don't know too much, Letang's +/- and points aren't because hes so good, its because hes on the ice with Crosby, I could have 20+ points and a good +/-if I were on the ice with him.

Well, first Byfuglien isn't really a defenseman, hes a 4th forward, if you watched him play at all this year hes been mediocre at defense. Lidstrom's defense has been very good this year, and if you knew anything about hockey you'd realize +/- is not the stat that makes or break defensemen. The best indicators for defenseman are minutes played, who they are playing with (Byfuglien's defense partner has bailed him out a LOT this year), who they are playing against, among a lot of other things. I would really start watching more hockey before you talk out of your ass.

Don't doubt Howard... ..but he means first to 20 wins.