VM1138

Third line. Check. First line. Check. Second and Fourth lines? Still in progress.

Luongo is playing like his old elite self. Unreal.

We really need a third goal. Just to prove they're still capable of scoring three times in a game.

Pieces are starting to cone together. Tatar and Abdelkader complement each other. Slip Helm between them and we'll have a great grinding/energy line who can chip in goals. I like it.

I like that you're trying to keep perspective, but when teams go on losing streaks, it's not always because of something structural like it is with the Wings. And their offense probably doesn't dry up like the Wings has.

What's the deal with season ticket holders obssessing over the printed tickets? Who cares? Is there some benefit to having the "real" tickets? Like, do they get you into a VIP lounge with boomers or something? Edit: Meant to say "hookers" but my phone autocorrected. Oddly, "boomers" sounds fitting, too.

I moved this thread here because it focuses entirely on the trade value of Tootoo and describes a specific rumor. What's interesting is that, if true, "talks went south fast." I wonder what Holland was asking for?

The Wings aren't enamored of Sammy. They're not keeping him here out of loyalty or respect. I get the distinct impression they don't want him here. He was benches early and kept there until last game. He is never talked about by Babcock. I think they were going to buy him out to start the off-season, but he threatened an injury so they couldn't according to the rules. I'm betting that bit of b.s. soured Holland's attitude toward him. He is clearly here to finish out his contract since he can't be traded without approving of it--not that anyone would trade for him--and waiving him won't help. So we're stuck with him because he has no intention of leaving. So he'll stay benched except for when Babcock needs an extra body.

Wang wouldn't go for it. As long as the Isles are just above the cap, they won't make a move.

I wonder if we'll become the first team in history to bench a majority of its forwards by seasons' end. EDIT: Nevermind, I thought Franzen was benched before I realized he's injured.

It would be a bad move to trade both Nyquist and Tatar. Especially for Ryan. A good regular season does not equal a good playoff run.

Only Red Wings fans would bitterly argue Filppula vs. Weiss. And maybe Toronto fans. Fact is, everyone's offense has disappeared so I wouldn't think Flip would he doing well, wither had he stayed. Flip was never a bad player. He was never dynamic though, never controlled the pace on the ice, rarely made great things happen, and was terrified of shooting. I'm glad he is succeeding now but I don't fool myself into thinking things would be different had he stayed. Maybe not getting re-signed by Holland lit a fire under his butt? Flip has way more to prove than Weiss does. Also, playing on a team with Stamkos and other shooters might motivate him. One things is for sure, except for maybe Zetterberg, the Wings don't have highly effective and consistent shooters. Pavs could be but he focuses on pkaymaking.

Holland isn't anti-youth. The only player who may have been sidelines unfairly in favor of vets is Tatar. Holland re-signed Cleary for his playoff contributions and because Babs trusts Cleary. Other than him keeping Nyquist down, thus far we play Smith, Oullet, Lashoff, Tatar, Anderson. That's plenty of youth. Having veterans is not the problem. Having ineffective veterans and refusing to use them in reduced roles is the problem. Remember, having vets worked well in 02, 07, 08 and 09. Also, they think long-term. If a formula works, a few games or even years can't make them deviate. 2009 was a pretty big success even without a cup, 2010 and 2011 were injury aberrations, 2012 sucked but we still made it to the second round, and 2013 was short, injury-riddled and we almost beat the eventual Cup champs. With that sample I can see why long-term they might be reluctant to undergo radical philosophy changes. That being said, it doesn't seem like Holland or Babcock have the "win now" mentality anymore. They are as complacent as the players, always thinking about tomorrow, next season, waiting to see how things play out. If you're always waiting to see how things play out, things will never change.

If Miller goes to Pittsburgh, I think they become Cup favorites. This trade must be motivated by something behind the scenes. Not a massive upgrade and a big gamble for Islanders. Did Vanek want out of Buffalo? No kidding. With 17 first- and second-round picks in four years, there is no excuse for them not being a dynasty within ten years.

Do you Filppula fans really think that he would be doing any better than Weiss had he stayed? This whole struggle is team-wide.

Is it oif system that doesn't work, or do we lack the players to make the system work? It can't be a coincidence that everyone's offense has dried up the past few years.

Your sarcasm aside, if it's true he's a heart and soul guy, that means he's not the type to just give up. Ego, he will come around. Never said anything about his lack of goal scoring.

Yeah, Flip disappeared a lot. Weiss is a heart and soul guy, according to Florida fans. He will come around.

Did Nike design all of the uniforms for all countries? It's so consistently horrible country to country that it has to be done by one person. Which begs the question: Why do other countries get forced into supporting an American company for an international competition?

Maybe Babcock is just too focuses on defense. Lidstrom leaving might have really rattled his plans. Very little emphasis seems to have been placed on bottom six scoring. I like those lines. We unfortunately can't keep Datsyuk and Z together right now.

As far as Franzen goes, I'd rather have him do everything right but score a few less goals. His goal scoring isn't a huge asset. They come in clumps, and lately not even then. So his goals really only seem to affect a small number of games. I'd rather we get an all-around player who hustles and makes us stronger. So I'd be good with him at center producing fewer goals. But Weiss...I don't know, maybe playing on the wing will let him open up a bit.

Defense sparks offense, and right now Kronwall is the only one chipping in. He has 7 points in 9 games and is fourth on the team in points. The next closest defenseman is Ericsson with 3 points in 9 games. So clearly we need more help on defense. Perhaps the solution to our offensive woes isn't another forward, but a more offensively minded defenseman? Line 1: Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi/Abdelkader Why? Zetterberg and Datsyuk are doing great together, and Bertuzzi works best with them, but needs time off the top line once in a while to recuperate. Abdelkader has to slot in, unfortunately. That's most realistic, if useless. They would be supported by Kronwall and Ericsson, as usual. They work well together and clearly do contribute toward the top forward line's offense. Line 2: Weiss-Franzen-Alfredsson. Franzen is more responsible in the middle and clearly enjoys it. Weiss is a left-handed shot and can balance the line nicely. Kind of a small line, but they don't get pushed around too much. Would work most of the time, but might need to be switched up against teams like San Jose. This is the line that needs the most offensive-defenseman support. And we don't have someone to fill that void. Maybe Smith will some day, but it's clearly not now. DeKeyser can hold the line, but we need an acquisition for this spot to open up the offense. Line 3: Tatar-Helm/Andersson-Andersson/Abdelkader. Yes, a jumble. Without Nyquist up, Andersson could provide the jump to complete an energetic third line. But if Helm isn't ready, we'll need him at center. Abdelkader can play here to complete an energetic line when he's not on the top line. Cleary fills in for grittiness when Abdelkader and Andersson don't play on the wing. Defense pair: Smith/Lashoff/Kindl-Quincey. Still a panic-inducing line. I slot Kindl here in case he isn't offered in a trade for an offensive defenseman. Admittedly, Smith and Quincey trigger terror in the hearts of Red Wings fans, but what else can you do? I'd like a more defensive stay-at-home guy behind Tatar, but it just doesn't seem to be in the cards. Line 4: Miller-Glendening-Cleary/Tootoo. A hodge-podge line. Tootoo alternates with Cleary, saving Cleary's energy and body and keeping Tootoo from playing a lot. Babcock would love this. Has decent grit to this line. Discard/Trade/Sit: Kindl (not because he's playing bad), Sammy, Eaves.

Scoring is an issue, but it probably has something to do with the constant line juggling. I wish Weiss were doing better, but I'll cut him some slack because it's still probably an adjustment period. I don't think we should panic and sell the farm for a new player to create offense. After all, we brought two in and still have the same problem we had last year, only magnified. The problem must be institutional, something Babcock or one of his assistants is doing. Anyway, Weiss will warm up eventually, and he's still not worse than Flip would have been, so it's not a total loss yet. I think Babcock really needs to give up on hoping Franzen will explode. He can still chip in goals as a center, and he plays better there. I'm not sure if Weiss would do well as a winger, or if he should be slotted down to third line center, but we always have nice things to say about Franzen at center. Maybe he should become our second-line center and Weiss slot in somewhere else.

We all notice Franzen when he plays center. Not sure what his face-off stats are, but if they're decent work him there. I think Babcock wants his offense but that's not happening anyway so put him in a defensive role for now.

Tatar doesn't have any size issues. Like Datsyuk, he plays bigger than he is. I don't buy size as a reason he doesn't play. Nyquist is stuck where he is because of the roster. I don't think Babcock has anything against him like he does seem to have for Tatar.