GMRwings1983

Hockey players get paid nothing compared to what NBA players make. The average Joe in the NBA makes more money than Crosby or Ovechkin.

It was a strange time in the NHL. Montreal wins 4 straight, the Islanders win 4 straight, and the Oilers (almost) win 5 straight. Poor Boston. They had some great teams during this stretch, but were on the wrong end of those teams.

Weak. The pictures with him and Gina Lynn are better (arguably not appropriate for the site, though).

I wouldn't mind. He needs to play his way up, though. His stock can't be too high the way last season ended.

No team in sports will ever win 19 consecutive playoff series again. Too much parity now. Those Islander teams are probably my favorite dynasty in NHL history.

Wasn't there a guy here recently that wanted this job?

Robin Bigsnake

I should qualify, that Ovechkin has played right wing a lot lately. As far as left wing goes, Bobby Hull is the best in hockey history. After that, I'd put Ovechkin, ahead of guys like Lindsay and Kharlamov. Not sure where I'd rank Kirk Maltby on that list.

I would say if Ovechkin retires tomorrow, he's the second greatest left winger in hockey history.

He's more of a goal scorer, so he should score more GPG. I think when he retires, he'll be considered by experts as the best Russian player in history. Ahead of Fedorov, Tretiak, Fetisov, Makarov, Kharlamov, Bure and others. He's putting up big numbers in a league where that isn't done anymore consistently. He's led his team in goals and points every year he's been in the league. Even if he never makes the Finals, he'll likely be regarded as the best Russian player ever. Maybe not by people back in Russia, but by most NHL experts.

Why is he done? Jason Kidd was a head coach when he got arrested for drunk driving. He wasn't done. It's a crime and he'll be punished, but it's not like we all don't know numerous people who've gotten DWI's. He shouldn't lose his job just because of this.

The sad thing is, he probably narrowly misses out on Nashville's Mount Rushmore.

I hope you're joking. Him getting his number retired was a travesty. Andy Bathgate wore that same number and his number wasn't honored by the franchise until after they retired Graves. He's one of the best wingers of his generation. Graves was a good player, but not in Bathgate's league. The Rangers don't respect their older players. Bill Cook, Harry Howell and Andy Bathgate are constantly ignored by the modern day fan for Messier, Graves, Richter and Leetch. From what I remember Harry Howell played more games than any Ranger in history, and he didn't get his jersey retired until 2009. Pitiful franchise. Projecting is different, but I thought the list looked at the present. Obviously, if Giroux retires tomorrow, he doesn't get on the Flyers' Mount Rushmore. Strange choice to pick him over any other player they've had since their Cup teams. Maybe Buccigross did project. Or maybe he hates Eric Lindros. BTW, where's eva to tell me how Mark Howe is the greatest Flyer of all time?

No they're not. I remember a few years ago during the playoffs, tough guys were routinely given 10 minute misconducts late in games, even when they didn't do anything. Just to prevent any rough stuff from happening later. In other words, the league will rewrite the rule book to make sure there aren't any brawls.

Good question. It is subjective and difficult to define. It seems like this phrase is commonly associated with players from the late 80's and early 90's. I'm talking Shanahan, Tocchet, Neely, Tkachuk, Kevin Stevens,etc. Usually wingers too. I mentioned Lindros earlier, but come to think of it, I don't remember him getting that moniker, despite having all the qualities of the others. Also, scoring lots of goals seems to be important to the definition. No one called Probert a power forward, even though he was a big guy that could score goals and was a great fighter. His definition is "enforcer". I don't remember Claude Lemieux being called a power forward either. He had size and could score dirty goals and fight. So the definition wasn't just guys that hit, fight and score dirty goals, but score lots of goals (as in All Star level). If this sounds silly, just remember that it's a subjective definition. Modern day players are the hardest to classify, because there's so few fights now. Lucic is the guy that most reminds me of those players I mentioned. For different reasons, each of the other names you mentioned, I don't think of as power forwards. Then there's revisionist history, which looks at guys like Howe or Esposito and asks whether they were power forwards? Confused yet?

I wouldn't consider Jagr a power forward either. To me a power forward does have to fight. But even if you exclude fighting, I still think of a power forward as a big, gritty player who plays a chippy style in front of the net and can score goals. Jagr doesn't really qualify. We can all find highlights of guys scoring goals in the crease. Gretzky scored plenty of goals in the crease too. Of course, "power forward" is a hockey term that doesn't actually exist, much like "defensive defenseman". Meaning, it's very subjective. But traditionally, it's been used to describe players like Howe, Neely, Shanahan, Tocchet, Lindros, etc. Not a Jagr or a Franzen.

I've got a buddy in the organization that tells me Darren Helm is tough enough that he shaves with a blowtorch.

If you don't count Bishop. LOL. The Blackhawks are ghosts talent wise. But they did have size in their Cup runs with Bickell and Bufflin. Every Cup team needs some kind of grit and size. Can't win on talent and speed alone.

BTW, did anyone else think this thread would be about steroids when reading the title?

Whether a power forward has to fight is frequently debated, but it's almost unanimously considered that a power forward has to be somewhat physical and aggressive near the net. I've never considered Franzen to be a power forward. He's a sniper who scored about 30 goals in his prime.

He's always played a soft game for his size. Even before the concussion issues. But I don't expect or want him to be aggressive at this point. I realize that's not going to happen.

This is a little misleading. A lot of these prospects aren't known for physicality and many of them are Euros. Being tall by itself doesn't make you a force to play against. For instance, Drew Miller is 6'2, but he's not a tougher physical presence than the much shorter Tootoo. Franzen is 6'3, but has always played like a wuss. Guys like Callahan and Ferraro are barely 6'0 tall, and they play a physical style.

I would take him for a cheaper contract. I think anyone would. He's basically a skilled fighter getting paid top line minutes.

Oh wow! How did that not get mentioned? That's worse than any signing on this list. Of course, Messier revisionists would like to pretend it didn't happen. This is a man who named an award after himself.

LOL. I was just talking about the things important to me.