GMRwings1983

Francis is higher all time in points than Ovechkin also. Yzerman is higher all time in points than Beliveau. You can't just look at all time points to determine who was better. I would say Ovechkin's individual awards put him above Dionne. Yes, you could blame that on Gretzky being in Dionne's era. But it's still a fair point. As I said earlier, other than Ovechkin, I can't think of a player who led his team in goals and points the first 10 seasons of his career. Dionne is not ranked that highly in hockey circles. I think a lot of that is unfair, but I don't think he should be ranked higher than Ovechkin, who is a better player for his era and for his position.

Well, both the Hawks and Rangers won game 6, so the league has already averted disaster once.

I could also argue that the Wings could disguise a coat rack in 2008 as coach, and make a good run. We certainly had no shortage of talent on that team. Canada could also disguise a coat rack as coach and win the last two Gold Medals with that roster.

So the guy that beat Babcock in the 2009 Finals? Serves those losers right.

They should do an outdoor game during the SCF. Good weather, girls, palm trees, etc.

Tayes is better off not being paired against Kesler. Quenneville has the last change, so he should put Tayes against a different Anaheim line.

Now Tampa knows what it feels like to blow game 6 at home.

Different type of player, though. He was more of a skilled player, although he was picked in the later rounds (likely because no one knew anything about foreign players then). Likewise, Yzerman was a no-brainer pick in that same draft at the 4 spot. The players I mentioned, however, are three of the ten best fighters in NHL history. Devellano picked all three of them in the same freaking draft.

Hey, read my post above. Probert, Kocur and Grimson in the same draft. Even Brian Burke wouldn't have done that.

In retrospect, I was hard on Devellano in this thread. This is a man who produced one of the greatest drafts in NHL history in 1983, when he drafted Yzerman, Probert, Kocur, Grimson and Klima. There's a lineup I'd go to war with. I'm guessing the Wings must have been bullied in 1982.

Indeed. It will be a "Bash at the Beach" for the Stanley Cup.

We will forever rue the day we let Yzerman go. We wanted him to overripe before becoming GM. Next thing you know, he doesn't want to overripe, he goes to Tampa, makes two Conference Finals, and trades KFQ (as he's called here) for a first round pick. Yeah, it's not all him and there's other factors involved, but it's hard to say that he's not succeeding, because he is. To answer Nightfall's question, there is no magic number for how long a GM should have. It depends. Holland has been lucky that he surrounded himself with smart people in the front office, good coaches, great players and no salary cap. As the people around him left, the salary cap disappeared, and the top players got old, he doesn't look so hot anymore. I would have pulled the plug a few seasons ago on Holland and gone in a new direction.

This series reminds me of how fun hockey used to be back when goalies sucked. These two goalies look like they're playing in the 80's. Well, they did sweep the Wild, so they got plenty of rest in that series to make up for the overtime games.

In the regular season, they didn't play against Chicago every game. Harder to dominate when you play a tough team and play them over and over, where they can learn your tendencies. Plus, Chicago is a proven team in this type of situation. And we all know the regular season doesn't matter. Otherwise, the Wings would have won four or five Cups during the 2000's.

Interesting. I've never heard of Lindros referred to as a great goal scorer. I don't think he ever scored 50 goals. Or were you referring to points only? After who? Gretzky? You can't forget Bobby Hull, who would have scored more goals had he played in the 80's, and had not went to a different league.

If Ovechkin retired today, he'd be the greatest player ever not to win a Cup. Nevermind the fact that he's never even been to the conference finals, much like Marcel Dionne, who's likely right behind him as greatest player not to win one. His teams just haven't been able to pull through in big moments. He's averaging about a point per game in the playoffs, so you can't really say he's underachieving. Will be interesting to see if he stays in Washington his entire career or chooses to chase a Cup elsewhere.

Winning four straight long OT games is not luck. Just like it wasn't bad luck that the Wings used to always lose these games. This team knows how to win together in tight moments.

Not that Ovehckin is having lots of playoff success, but "our organization" is not that special anymore. There's nothing special about our leadership that the top teams around the league don't have plenty of. Where Ovechkin differs from other Wings is that he's brash, outgoing and frequently arrogant. In that, he's wildly different than Zetterberg, Datsyuk or Kronwall. But that also doesn't make him any less a leader. In fact, being extroverted is frequently an attribute you see in leadership. Just not in the NHL, I guess, with guys like Yzerman, Sakic and Beliveau being humble, quiet leaders. But I think Ovechkin would be a good leader here. As long as he still brings it on every shift and tries to either score a goal or hit someone through the boards, his teammates would admire him anywhere.

Ovechkin frequently plays like a man possessed. It's true he doesn't backcheck, but he does forecheck, unlike Jagr, Bossy, Lafleur, Bure and other great scorers. Has their ever been a great goal scorer that forechecked like Ovechkin does and looked to initiate hits? That's the kind of thing that teammates like about him. He's always looking to score or hit someone on every shift. That motivates the rest of his team. There's other ways to lead besides being great defensively.

The era has changed, but I wonder where and when that came about? I'd say somewhere at the end of the 1990's and early 2000's. To me, I don't mind if my superstar player scores tons of points and doesn't play defense. If other guys on his line are defensively responsible and our 3rd line is a good shutdown line, I'm fine with it. There's plenty of good two-way players in the game. There's only two or three guys in the whole league that seem capable of scoring 50 goals, though. I'll take a special player like Ovechkin over a Toews or Zetterberg.

So you're not a leader unless you play a two-way game? I guess that means Gretzky wasn't a good leader. I like a two-way game also, but it's not necessary for greatness or leadership. Many of the best goal scorers in NHL history didn't have a two way game. I can fill up an entire page naming those players. Who gives a crap? Are you one of those posters that wouldn't trade Zetterberg for him straight up? (providing Washington would ever make that trade).

LOL. What?

I was thinking of Messier in game 6, back in 1994.

If you adjust for stats, he's easily top 5. The fact that he's scored so many goals, despite two lockouts and goalies who wear giant pads and stop everything, is remarkable. He has led his team in goals and points every year in his career. To date, I don't believe any player in NHL history has ever done that.

So which Rangers player will guarantee a win in game 6?