GMRwings1983

No, Kenny Holland needs to realize that. He's always asking for it, but never willing to overpay. Maybe he shouldn't beg so hard.

We don't have a ring of honor, but there are numbers the team has taken out of circulation. That's very similar to a ring of honor, in that the organization finds a way around having to actually retire the jersey.

He had over 70 fights in his NHL career, so if it's suicide, expect to hear more arguments against removing fighting from the game. I know it's too early to speculate, but just a thought. We had several tough guys die a few years ago in a short span.

Read my post near the top of this page. Holland getting fleeced is nothing new.

Hey, didn't we trade a 1st for Kyle Quincey? Holland does overpay. Just for the wrong guys.

Yeah, they all go to Nashville. Oh wait....

I'm guessing Zetterberg. It should be Larry Aurie being put back in the rafters, followed by Red Kelly and Norm Ullman finally being retired. But none of those three things will happen, unfortunately.

Not really. Players want to play in Toronto, regardless of how bad they are. It's a huge city and the biggest hockey market in the world. Nashville is the furthest thing from that. Yeah, there's less pressure in Nashville and they're a better team, but come on.

Fair enough. I never said Pronovost was better than Kelly or Harvey, though. Those guys should be ahead of him offensively. I never saw either him or Reed Larsson play. Hell, I never saw Eddie Shore play. I just don't know how a decent offensive d-man can be ranked ahead of a Hall of Famer who is more highly considered past and present. The OP didn't really explain whether the list is intended as subjective or objective. My point is, if it's objective, guys like Ullman and Pronovost should be on it. If It's subjective, then guys like Lilja and Grimson should be on it.

Is calling Howard "average" bashing?

You're making a mistake I used to make. Looking at scoring stats despite eras. Defensemen weren't scoring that much in those days. Doug Harvey only scored 50 points in a season once. I suppose Mike Green is better than him? How about Phil Housley being better than Eddie Shore? I think not. Forget the points. Pronovost is in the HHOF. Larsson isn't even close. Kronwall won't even come close either. Konstantinov had his career ended early so we'll never know. Pronovost is easily below Lidstrom and Kelly, but I'd rank him above those other defensemen on your list. Now Chelios is way higher all time than Pronovost, but he was past his peak in Detroit (albeit still solid defensively).

It is pathetic that Ilitch did this without explanation. Aurie may not in retrospect be one of hockey's greatest all time players, but he was important to the Wings and was one of the team's earliest pioneers, which is why his jersey is retired. Ilitch needs to realize that hockey existed before 1950. Moron.

It's disrespectful to a man's legacy and to his family to have done that. Ilitch was classless. You don't take a guy's jersey down just because you don't think he was deserving. There's a lot of undeserving players in sports who have had their numbers retired.

I would pay a s*** load of money to watch that team play. They'd easily be the toughest team in the league. So you think Kris Draper is a better player than Norm Ullman? Interesting. And Pronovost doesn't get enough love either. He's a better defenseman than several of the players you listed.

That's true. Ilitch had the gall to unretire Aurie's number.

Can we handle having a guy named Franson and a guy named Franzen on the same team? Talk about an announcer's nightmare.

Yet more proof that you got bullied by enforcers when you played hockey. I don't buy that whole "Craig Coxe didn't sign my autograph" story.

Sheahan must like breaking glass. Had two wonderful shooting opportunities and hit the glass both times.

How is Filppula doing these days?

Well, I post all the time. So do most posters in this thread. But in any case, I've already suggested how we need to improve. Fix the defense and get another scoring winger to play with Datsyuk. Holland has to decide whether he wants to sacrifice some prospects to do that, or whether he wants to sacrifice yet another playoff for the future.

Well, that's why we have intelligent, knowledgeable posters like yourself to keep us calm and inform us how it really is.

So you think these boards are more fun when nobody posts and everybody who does talks about how great we are?

Horrible play all around by Ericsson.

What thinking? As I said earlier, your boy Franzen will be our deadline acquisition.