GMRwings1983

Killing penalties? We have many forwards who can do that. Miller is a decent 4th liner, but he's very, very replaceable. If anything, I think he's overrated around here. Our PK hardly sets the world on fire.

Souray can bang Kelly Kelly all he wants, but he'll never forget that night in Edmonton, when he was owned by Andreas Lilja. Orr actually was at one time in McGrattan's league and in others'. Not so anymore.

He scored 38 points that year. When was the last time a defenseman won the Norris when scoring 38 points?

And his knocking Souray on his ass?

He heat Boll like a rented mule. He also fought Begin and Slater. The fear on Phaneuf's face was enough to register that a win for Lilja. Phaneuf hanged on for dear life. His days in Florida are irrelevant. That was before he came the "PAIN TRAIN"

I'd like to see these 80% of fights he lost while he was a Wing.

Same Andreas Lilja who TKO'd this guy back on November 20, 2008? Or the same Andreas Lilja who made this guy s*** his pants back on November 27, 2008? (greatest picture ever) Or the same Andreas Lilja who made Patrick Sharp.................OK you get the point.

I thought about Rafalksi. A great example of a whipping boy that suddenly got missed when he left. The powerplay really missed Rafalski. Just curious, what years would you have given him the Norris for? You say at least one, and probably more. He never scored 40 points in any season, and this was in an era were goals were more prevalent than later years. I realize there's more to defending than scoring points, but you're not going to win a Norris trophy if you can't hit 40 points. That's why he didn't win one. Not because he's not from Canada or the US.

He's always going to be unappreciated by North American audiences, because they didn't see him play in the NHL in his prime. Same thing as Fetisov.

What about Downey? Guy won us the Cup in 2008. The manhood that he displayed in the regular season rubbed off on our soft Euros come playoff time. To this day, people still discredit him on LGW.

The one in 2008 was a different era. I was talking about the first three Cups. I can see the argument. Wings fans think of him as an above average goalie who was a good whipping boy. In truth, he's a borderline Hall of Famer with two Cups and over 400 wins. He was more than a good goalie. At the end of the day, though, he'll be more remembered than someone like Holmstrom, who only had two 50 point seasons in his career. For those who never saw him play, people looking back at his stats will think of Ozzie as a good goalie. I doubt people will do the same for Holmstrom.

It depends on who you ask. Wings fan give Holmstrom credit. Maybe even other teams fans do. I'm confident, though, that in the future, people will not give him enough credit. His stats won't look all that impressive. Osgood is another player I thought about voting for. He was a really good goalie. Almost a HOF goalie (thanks Brad Stuart). What will hurt him in this argument is that Detroit won 3 Cups with three different goalies from 1997-2002.

I'd say Holmstrom. Guy was never remotely close to being an All star caliber player, and his 530 career points won't impress anybody who didn't see him play, when they look back at his stats 20 years from now. However, he was so important, even when he didn't score a point. Imagine how many goals were scored that he didn't even register a point on, where he was somehow largely responsible for the goal with his screens.

If we had a player like Subban and he was given this contract, I doubt many people here would be upset.

He's a 25 year old star defenseman and the cornerstone of their team along with Price. Are people saying he's not good enough? His attitude doesn't warrant this deal? Or are you guys saying only forwards should get this kind of money?

Yes

Why not? Even the s***tiest players in the NBA make that kind of money.

The Reebok jerseys and the unnecessary, obtrusive stripes have ruined hockey jerseys. One of the worst mistakes the NHL made. I've said this a million times, but the best jerseys are typically the earlier ones. The teams that decided to drastically change things just to sell more merchandise usually chose a worse design than the one before. Someone here once told me that people tend to prefer the jerseys that teams wore when that person was younger. That is also true. I prefer the jerseys teams wore in the early 90's when I was a kid. However, looking back at those jerseys, they really were simpler and more memorable. The NHL needs to get rid of the verticle stripes running down from the armpits, and the idiotic horizontal stripe running below the shoulder and neck. f*** Reebok.

Oh. I was thinking of the Mr. Mister song. I'm so 1980's.

You know, if they ever remade that movie "The Wall", Franzen would be perfect for the part.

"Broken Wings" is Mr. Mister. (Yes, I played Vice City religiously ) Don't believe that was a Beatles cover song.

"I'm not half the man I used to be" should be one of Kenny Holland's favorite lines.

I can't put into words what you missed.

You're thinking of the past, when Babcock and the Wings were good. If Tom Renney is one of the most desired coaches in the league, it's not because of the recent Wings.

I don't need no stinking analytics! When your team can punch people in the face, thought becomes irrelevant.