GMRwings1983

Why didn't Datsyuk, Franzen or Filppula score those dirty goals and cheap points that Cleary was putting up? Guy went to the scoring areas and was rewarded, while those guys were prancing around. Maybe we could have beaten Chicago if they played as hard as Cleary.

I hate them also. They dive and I don't like their faces. Why does hate have to be rational?

What if he takes them to the Finals like Leino did?

Selanne will get there faster, but Jagr is miles ahead of Selanne on the NHL's all time greatest players list. Selanne never had the consistent dominance and individual awards that Jagr had. He couldn't take over games the way Jaromir could either.

Shows you where their franchise is at.

Fixed.

Meh. Cleary would have been better.

What part of Vancouver was this taken in?

Not sure if it would have changed anything in free agency or via trade. I doubt any good goalie would want to play there.

Glad they buried the hatchet. I didn't see this one coming the way he and the franchise parted. For many my age, Bure is what we remember most about the Canucks. Guy was a goal scoring machine that skated like the wind and shot like a rocket. He was one game seven away from predating Lidstrom by 8 years as the first European born Conn Smythe trophy winner.

Why did he wait so long? The season is going to start soon.

What's that? Waste space and not score? 3 points in 12 playoff games, while playing with top line players is hardly decent.

Apartment. LOL This isn't the 1970's. I thought the Russian players lived better off nowadays.

Franzen - Weiss - Zetterberg Nyquist - Datsyuk - Alfredsson Tatar - Helm - Bertuzzi Grimson - Abdelkader - Tootoo Kronwall - Ericsson Dekeyser - Quincey Smith - Kindl

Your stats actually somewhat prove my point. Franzen didn't play all 48 games, but he should have a much higher SPG ratio than Cleary. The gap wasn't that high as your stats show, especially when you consider Franzen logging more icetime and more PP minutes, where so many shots come from.

For this season only, I voted Alfredsson. I doubt we'll have him for long, and we remember how disappointing that Modano signing was, albeit under different circumstances. When Alfie leaves after a year or so, I'd have to vote for Franzen or one of the young guns.

Well, he did score a huge goal for them in game 7...........................whoops, nevermind.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. This franchise had amazing jerseys, and then completely changed their design to something worse. First, they went to the "retarded" Sabres logo, for those black, white and red jerseys. You know, the one with the crooked neck. Then, they got even worse but introducing the Buffalo slug (albeit with the original team colors). Recently, they've brought back their original jersey as a 3rd jersey, so maybe it's heading in the right direction. It's just sad that changing something good to something crappy actually prompts people to go out and buy new jerseys, because that's what's driving all these changes in the first place. Not helped by the fact that Steve Ott is modeling it.

Thank you. Cleary loves to shoot and has confidence. He just has no talent. Give him Franzen's skills and we have a great player.

You don't think Holland has thought about moving Franzen before, or looking for a replacement? I would guess he has, just hasn't found the right opportunities/prices. I agree. Dan Cleary would definitely say, "I'm a goal scorer". He has that confidence that Franzen severely lacks.

I don't think those guys were bigger underachievers. After the those long playoff runs, fans expected more from Franzen than either of those players. A lot more. Plus, those guys did as well as they could for their size and playing style. I can't say that about Franzen. Kronwall played well defensively in the playoffs. It's his offensive game that was poor in the postseason. In any case, he's a steal at his cap hit. We're lucky there. Much bigger steal than Franzen.

I would actually take Franzen over all those players. None of those guys should be top line wingers, imo. But I don't think any of them have Franzen's skill set, or are as lazy as him.

Filppula put up the numbers his cap hit deserved. Kind of like your Franzen argument. Same with Hudler. What's different in their cases from his, if you're taking this route? Kronwall is actually getting paid less than he should. He could get way more money elsewhere, but chooses to stay in Detroit.

I don't watch Clarkson or Clowe on a consistent enough basis to call them lazy. Clarkson is a good player from what I've seen. Likely not worth that money. Clowe has gotten worse as a player statistically. Not sure why. Don't watch enough Sharks games to tell you. I know both guys are big, physical and can punish teams on the forecheck. They can also stand up for their teammates. We don't have a player on the roster like those guys. That's why I've lauded that part of their game before. I never said Clowe would win the Richard Trophy as a Red Wing. I never saw them as having Franzen's skill set from the games I've watched them play in. As for our roster, I can't think of anyone who's as big an underachiever as Franzen. Quincey isn't worth the money he's paid, but he's not an underachiver. In his case, Holland just overpaid for him. That's why I brought up Hossa. A bigger cap hit, but a better overall player. I'd take that sacrifice.

Would this thread become even more interesting if I mentioned Marian Hossa? Instead of paying Franzen his $4 million to be a 25-30 goal scorer, we could have paid Hossa a little more, but gotten a much better production in return. He sucked in the 2009 playoffs, but Holland is supposed to see the future better than us, and I think we can all agree he made the wrong decision.