GMRwings1983

Lindros at his peak was better than Forsberg in his. Forsberg was always a pass first guy, while Lindros could score goals as well as assists, and was a physical nightmare for teams to play against. He could also beat enforcers in fights, if it came down to it. Unfortunately, Lindros never had a Roy, Sakic, Bourque, Foote or Blake on his team, so he never had the kind of team success. But he was more of a franchise player than Forsberg. BTW, they'll both get in. Forsberg will indeed get in first, because of the team successes.

They have a board?

Everyone plays their goons against Montreal, and punks their team out. Why wouldn't they try that same strategy against us? Teams like Montreal and Buffalo have been in denial for years about getting bigger in the East, but they're trying to change their philosophies with recent moves. There's something to that. Not like these other GM's are idiots, while Holland is a genius. Not really.

Yet no one in Dallas cares about hockey. Pretty sad.

Lindros should definitely get in. Just like Bure, he didn't have a long career, but was brilliant in his peak and influence on the game. Cam Neely opened the Pandora's Box. And Bowman as well coaching them. Don't know about Datsyuk making the Hall of Fame. Tough to judge current players, because the numbers will look so different for forwards than previous eras with more scoring.

Tampa didn't have that much besides the big 3, even when they almost made the Finals in 2011. They got there with smoke and mirrors playing guys like Downie, Purcell, Bergheinheim, Moore, etc., who all played well above expectations in the playoffs. That's why the last two seasons they played more like they should with that roster. It's hard to turn around a losing culture. Much harder than anything Holland has had to do.

Red Kelly. Close thread. After Kelly. Kelly not only went to the Wings rival, but won four Cups playing center for the Leafs, and had his jersey honored by the Leafs. Meanwhile, the Wings didn't win squat for another 40 years. That said, his jersey should be hanging from the JLA rafters today, regardless.

Yzerman went to a s*** franchise, while Holland inherited the best team in the league and had plenty of money to work with for a long time, and a place that could draw free agents. I want to see Holland succeed in Tampa before you laud him and blast Yzerman. Exactly.

Holland needs a Luca Brasi. But Holland is to blame for signing this useless player in the first place. Just more evidence of Holland's recent stupidity in the free agent market.

Easy to say that, but this isn't exactly a big name NBA player deciding between $20 million vs. $18.5 million. We're talking much less money. Besides, I'd rather live in Florida and make $1.5 million more.

He did answer for his behavior. I remember him having to fight Shawn Thornton, and I remember him getting KO'd by Evander Kane. If you're talking about why no one retaliated against him by trying to end his career with a cheapshot, I'd suspect it's because no one wants a lengthy suspension. It's much easier to just beat up a guy.

Although I wonder how much of Holland pursuing Cleary has to do with Brunner not coming back? Signing both Brunner and Cleary would have been stupid to begin with. Too much cap room wasted. In any case Brunner not returning doesn't mean Holland should go after the ugliest girl at the bar.

And put up way more playoff points. I get it. Abby is younger and has more upside. But he doesn't deserve to play on the top lines over guys who have more "current" offensive upside than him, like Tatar or Nyquist.

Why doesn't Holland just increase the offer by taking money away from that Cleary contract he was planning on burdening the team with? I'd rather have Brunner for an overpayment than have him for 2.5, plus Cleary for whatever the hell he was offered.

I cringe every time I see posters put him on the first line. I know we have a current thread about him specifically, but it just baffles me. It's one thing to buy him, it's another thing entirely to promote him to the top line. It's like putting a crown on a pig. With his 3 points in 12 games? Cleary did way better than that. How come he didn't win anyone over? In fact, Abby has scored just 8 points in 49 playoff games. Yet people here make fun of Colton Orr or George Parros for their lack of playoff production in the past.

He fleeced Holland's ass during the Quincey trade.

55 points? Guy scored 3 points in 12 playoff games, playing on the top lines. He's not an offensive player and has hammer hands. Babcock needs to put this guy on the lower lines where he belongs.

And he wasn't age 40.

I hope so. Seems like we've had the injury bug for some time now, so you never know about the health. Scoring 70 points at age 40 is no small feat in the NHL, especially doing it "in his sleep" as you put it. The few tweaks would be nice, but that depends on how much cap room we'll have during the deadline. Doesn't seem like we'll have much. Besides, Holland has become stale at deadlines.

To those people saying Cup or bust, why do you feel that way? I was saying stuff like that for about 15 years, but not anymore. Roster isn't that good and IMO it's an unrealistic expectation with this group. We replaced Filppula with Weiss and added Alfredsson. Is that really all last year's team was missing?

With that roster, I think another trip to the 2nd round would be sufficient. I'd be surprised if they get further. This isn't exactly the 2009 roster. Also, I like Nyquist on the 2nd line over Abdelkader. Abby on the top two lines is just further indication that we have a lack of real scoring wingers. But Nyquist deserves to play with a Weiss or Franzen. He has a higher ceiling than Abby as well.

Bertuzzi should just retire. He and Samuelsson are handcuffing the team. Cleary should not be re-signed. That's on Holland. Tootoo is not to blame for anything. He's the only completely blameless person on the entire roster.

Cleary should wear some joke number, in significance of his place on the team. Maybe 69.

Didn't think about this, but aren't we division rivals now? Would make this move a little more controversial.

Too bad the Pens didn't sign him. It'd be funny if due to massive injuries, he and Crosby ended up on the same line. It'd be interesting to see what kind of numbers Cleary would have then.