GMRwings1983

I know he wasn't a great player, but the longevity and the fact that he's been the leader for so long is why I put him on the list. Also, he's scored enough points there to be a big factor. He's not exactly a Maltby type, who's been riding their fourth line for 15 years. As four Housley, why him but not Tkachuk, who put up great numbers for them in his prime? That's the guy I debated putting on the list instead of Doan. Also, Selanne only played there for 3 1/2 years. People just overrate his time there because of one season where he scored 76 goals. No way he should be number one. His other years there, he played 51 games, 45 games (strike season) and 51 games again before being traded. Hardly the best player in franchise history if you ask me.

I'd much rather watch dominance as well. However, those series aren't as memorable as the competitive ones which have lots of ups and downs. BTW, if we beat San Jose last year in game 7, I have no doubt most people would have voted for that. It's a shame.

What about our win against Columbus in 2009? That was epic.

Easily the Colorado series in 2002. I've never been so nervous for any games, including Cup Final games. Seven straight nerve wracking games. I knew we had to win that series to save face, after losing to them in 1999 and 2000. The other choices were big wins for Detroit, but two of them were sweeps and not all that competitive. The St. Louis series was great, but the Colorado one was just better, minus the game 7 blowout. The game 7 against St. Louis was as good a game as I've ever seen.

Pretty much the worst tragedy in hockey history. I guess this is no better or worse than any other plane crash, where non-famous people get killed. We see these things happen all the time. It's just horrible and absurd either way. These guys may have been famous and rich, but none of that matters in the end. They're gone forever. Hopefully something good will come out of this and they'll build better, safer planes in the KHL and in Russia, to avert all these crashes we've been hearing about.

I was talking about the Jets/Thrashers. Selanne never played for them. I'm sorry for any confusion. Nothing to concede really. I could have gone either way on some of these myself. I admitted it was somewhat subjective no matter how objective I tried to be. I can see putting Getzlaf there. Some other choices on several of your lists I'm surprised about. You think Neely had a better career than Esposito, and that Perreault and Dionne shouldn't even belong on their respective teams (Sabres and Kings). Wow! I thought about Hatcher and Nieuwendyk, but ultimately Zubov and Broten both played with the franchises for a longer time and put up better numbers. The Sedins I don't care much for. Their playoff numbers are a ******* joke. Bure scored over a point per game in the playoffs as a Canuck. His 1994 playoffs were amazing and he was one game from being the first European to win the Smythe trophy, long before Lidstrom won it in 2002. Keep in mind that he hardly had any talent around him except Linden, who didn't even play on the same line as him. Neither Sedin twink is even remotely close to averaging a point per game in the playoffs, despite having lots of talent around them for many years now. They're playoff chokers.

I didn't base it on pure talent. The original post lays out all the things I looked at. You're right that Weber is better than Timonen, but he's only gotten recognized over the last several seasons. Timonen played several more seasons there than Weber, and was a star player, unlike say Legwand. In a year or two, I'm sure Weber will be number one easily over Timonen or Vokoun. In any case, your argument is a good one, because I did originally have Vokoun over everyone else, and was debating where to rank Weber and Timonen. Weber is more of a star and arguably the best D-man in the league right now. I have no problem with you putting him first. I guess I gave Timonen the nod in longevity.

Who would you snub? Truthfully, the original 6 (minus Detroit) was a pain in the ass for me. I had a harder time with the Leafs than just about any team. Conacher lead the league in goals 5 of his 9 seasons in Toronto, and was one of the best players of his era. Apps is another guy that averaged over a point per game back when players weren't doing that. IMO, they were better in their era than Sittler was in his. Of course, it's hardly an exact science, but that's a factor I looked at. Mahovlich played about 11 full seasons in Toronto, and made the All star team 9 of those seasons. Sittler and Salming only made 3 each as Leafs. Mahovlich was also all NHL first or second team 6 times in Toronto. Of course he had more talent around him than either of those players, so I can see you arguing that point. Another guy I left off was Keon, who many regard as the best Leaf ever. That was also a tough snub for me. Either way, I'd have to leave off some terrific players which could be argued to belong on the list.

I applaud you for taking that stance and respect your opinion. Not many people here would have the guts to leave Yzerman off a list of 3 greatest Wings in history. But you really think Sawchuk and Lindsay were better players than Yzerman? Yzerman basically carried this franchise by himself for about 8 or 9 seasons. He didn't have Hall of Famers all around him early in his career, like Sawchuk and Lindsay did. Also, even if you adjust for stats, Yzerman still put up monster numbers in his prime. He's one of the most gifted offensive players in hockey history.

I never really considered Lindsay and Sawchuk over Lidstrom and Yzerman. They're both legends and great Red Wings, but not over Lidstrom and Yzerman. Of course it's just my opinion. Obviously, I had to snub many great legends from many teams when compiling my list. But honestly, the Wings weren't a team I spent too much time brooding over. It was an easy selection for me for all three spots. No, you just scared me for a while. I thought I may have had a dizzying spell and put Pronger on the list accidentally.

I did have Gretzky in there for the Oilers. I'm not that big an idiot. Yzerman may have meant more for the Wings, but that's only one factor I looked at. I rank Lidstrom higher all time, and they both played their whole career in Detroit and for a similar amount of total seasons. Lidstrom is just a machine, even in his late 30's and into his 40's now. Yzerman wasn't a top player during his last several years in Detroit. Lidstrom, however, is more than just an inspirational figure. He's still one of the two best players on the team. The individual accolades and being great relative to the era also favors Lidstrom. Of course, Yzerman played in an era with better competition and hockey Gods like Gretrzky and Lemieux, who were winning all the trophies. Bust still, Lidstrom's is easily the best D-man of his era and has 7 freaking Norris trophies. Bottom line is that when people rank their all time players list, I think Lidstrom will rank ahead of Yzerman on most lists, mine included. Timonen played there for 8 seasons. That's more than long enough. He made several All Star games and was the best skater on their team for many of those years. There's no doubt in my mind that he's number one. Don't know how you can leave him off the list entirely. Legwand has been there the longest, but he's never been a star player. Longevity is just one factor I looked at. He never had to carry that team either.

What a great idea for a thread! I can tell the OP is really knowledgeable about hockey history. I agree with pretty much the whole list. Meh, I guess no one wants to discuss NHL history on a holiday.

Didn't David Carradine die that way also?

I wish we had a GM that could have ridden us of Lebda that way.

Probably the Sedins the last several years. Stats wise at least. They're really good "regular season" players. You also forgot to mention Getzlaf/Perry

That's not where I was going with my post.

Afraid you may be right.

His death is by far more surprising than Probert, Boogaard or Rypien. Those other guys had problems everyone knew about, and in retrospect, their deaths were horribly tragic but not that shocking. However, Belak's death just came out of left field. That just proves that you never know how happy or sad someone is. Just because someone appears happy doesn't mean they are. People aren't that good at judging other people and we frequently misinterpret things based on our false judgments. We see what we want to see. Maybe Belak was one of those guys everyone misjudged as being content with life. Reminds me of Steiner in "La Dolce Vita"

They're not a defunct team, though, since they play in Phoenix. However, if you're right and they are allowed to use it, then they're just stupid going with this over the old colors.

Old logo and jersey were 10 times better, but I don't think they're allowed to use it.

I remember reading an interview with Ryan VandenBussche where he said that he played with concussions, because he was afraid to admit to his coaches and teammates that he had them. Basically, he hid his condition. That kind of pride and level of machismo that goes with being an enforcer makes it very likely that players still play with concussions today, for fear of looking weak in front of teammates. As I stated earlier, players are bigger and stronger now than they used to be. Not many guys were Belak's size back in the 80's or even 90's. Now every top enforcer is seemingly that big. Hence, much harder punches and more brain injuries.

Yet Matt Cooke continues to play hockey. Yes, I know we have Bertuzzi.

You obviously know nothing about pro wrestling. Wrestlers get injured more often than any other athletes. They also don't have offseasons to rest up their bodies. Concussions especially are unavoidable in the ring. Sure the action is staged, but the point is they take many injuries to the head and take a ridiculous amount of painkillers to offset their problems and aches. Fighting isn't as common as it used to be in hockey, but guys are bigger and stronger nowadays, and getting hit in the head by these giant enforcers has to take its toll on a brain and body. Also, there's a lot of stress with this particular job over some other positions in hockey.

This is starting to remind me of pro wresting, with these guys dying all of a sudden.