GMRwings1983

I wasn't blaming the entire team's failures on him. I just said that it's more than fair to put some blame on him, especially since our supplemental scorers tend to be better than other teams' secondary scorers. You're giving him a free pass, and I don't think he earned it. Lidstrom, Hank, Ozzie and a few others earned it, but not him.

Hudler was one of our leading scorers in the regular season. If you look at the last 2 rounds of the playoffs, he definitely failed to live up to expectations that he set earlier. Draper and Maltby didn't do anything different in the playoffs that they did in the regular season. Bad analogy there. So yeah, I think it's fair to criticize him and anyone else who underachieved. He gets lots of praise here, not just a few posters doing it like you suggested, but many posters. I don't see the problem with pointing a finger at him. You want to criticize Hossa? Go ahead and start a new thread. I'll be more than willing to join into that one too.

Oh, I'm sorry I forgot that Hossa is my boy. I've never made posts about his disappearance in the clutch. People here always worship this little runt, so don't complain when anyone dogs on this so called "supplemental player" for not playing too well. It goes both ways. I thought that Hudler is the kind of guy that scores lots of points with limited icetime, as people painstakingly point out constantly. Where was all that scoring late in the playoffs from him? Don't change the topic with Hossa's name.

Where were these goals in the SCF when they actually mattered?

So in other words, he's just like Maltby and Kopecky, except those guys aren't exactly average enforcers?

So this means that Williams will finish the season in Anaheim, after we trade him for Calder again. How nice.

Hank has consistently been better in the playoffs than Pavel. Also, last year Datsyuk was never good in the playoffs, even before his injuries occurred. The only reason I didn't rank Hank higher is because his offensive numbers were too low last year for such an elite player. Thus, it's fair to ask how much of his offensive production in the past occurred due to Datsyuk?

Malkin Yeah, I see your point, and I could have easily swapped the two. I just decided Crosby was a better player, but it was really a wash. They both have the hardware and playoff success to judge them equally. Crosby's better at faceoffs and is better in front of the net. Malkin has a better shot. Both are great passers. Both about equal defensively.

Scoring 1 goal the entire playoffs doesn't make Datsyuk look very good. As I've already said, your star players are supposed to score in big moments first and foremost. If they also play great defensively, then that's an added bonus. Pavel just didn't cut it in the clutch. If Crosby was great defensively and scored 1 goal in the playoffs, I'd have voted Datsyuk ahead of him. Besides, the MVP nomination didn't go to Crosby because he was injured more than the other candidates were. Crosby already has an MVP and an Art Ross. Datsyuk doesn't.

I agree with you, but why would you say Datsyuk has been better in the regular season than Crosby? I think it's about even, but I'd give Crosby the edge there. In the playoffs, it's not even close, though.

Datsyuk went on scoring droughts that Crosby doesn't go on in the playoffs. Yeah, he contributes defensively, but if your best player scores 1 goal in the playoffs, I don't give a s*** how well he plays defensively. Datsyuk had a terrible playoff for us, and his disappearing acts aren't excused by two-way play, or even by injuries, since he sucked in the first half of the playoffs too, before he was injured. A star player's first job is to score points. If he can't do that in the playoffs, everything else is minimized. You put too much stock into Pavel's defense. I don't put that much stock in it. Yeah, I look at scoring from a star forward more than I look at all-around ability. Now I've countered pretty much everything you said, unless I missed anything. There's no real way to respond to the officiating thing, because it's a paranoid argument. Yeah, the Pens get breaks from the refs, but other fans say the same thing about the Wings. No one ever thinks that their team is getting a fair deal from the refs. Besides, the Wings had enough PP's in the playoffs, so that Datsyuk should have had more points while on that PP. Hank and Franzen didn't seem to have a problem scoring on the PP's, so I'm not going to give Datsyuk the benefit of the doubt. If he played like he did in the last few playoffs, I probably would have picked him ahead of Crosby. However, he went down a notch for this last performance, thus I currently rank Crosby ahead of him. Let's just agree to disagree, because you're new to this flame war thing, and I can tell you that no one's mind is going to be changed.

I wanted to mention him, but I was afraid certain posters would attack me, and tell me that Crosby plays in the East, where it's apparently easier to score backhanded goals. Also, the refs allow him to illegally curve his stick to score those goals.

He does have a great backhand (as Hasek would tell you), even though, normally I think of left-handed shots as having the great backhands.

You're just a wannabee internet tough guy who hasn't really made any points worth debating, thus you resort to personal attacks like some middle schooler, which for all I know is exactly who you are. Nobody is defending me because they like me, they just realize how silly and childish you sound trying to turn this into a flame war. Let's see. What have you said worth responding to? Datsyuk is better as a two way player. You're right he is. I've admitted so a million times. What more do you want me to say? Playoff performance is a debate I'd easily win, since Crosby has been better than Datsyuk. No wonder you're avoiding that issue. Other posters chose Crosby because of his playoff performances. Not judging playoff play is a mistake since that is a very important piece of the pie. If a guy is underperforming in the playoffs, he's not going to get my vote over another great player who's playing better and stepping up in the clutch. What was your argument to counter that? Oh wait, you just ducked it. I don't buy that whole Eastern Conference crap, or that officials help Crosby crap. Those are just excuses. Crosby gets hacked around as much as any player in the league, as the Flyers and Capitals tried to do. He just handles it better than Pavel does. I think he'd do just as well in the West as the East. That's what elite players do. Also, I don't think the West is way tougher than the East. You're just guessing that he wouldn't be as good in the West, but where's your proof for that? It's the easiest argument in the world. Crosby is in the East and the refs help him. How do I respond to such childish s***? The Wings get lots of PP's too. It all evens out and is a poor excuse. You really have no arguments on your side, other than Datsyuk is better two-ways, stats are misleading (which goes both ways), and that Crosby plays in an easier Conference (good luck proving that). Since you have no leg to stand on, you're going to respond to my post like a 7th grader now. Go ahead, embarass yourself some more.

Tomas "The Broomstick" Kopecky. So long ago, you can't remember, right?

Too much overreaction going on here. Like I said earlier, I doubt too many people here were thrilled when Cleary (a guy with a lazy and checkered history) was given a tryout.

Do teams ever take the bus anymore? Or have I been watching too much Slapshot? I wasn't sure, so I thought I'd ask.

So does this make him the best fighter on the team? Personally, I don't have a problem with him trying out. What if he plays great at camp and in the preseason and wins a job? That's how Cleary and Downey made this team.

More like vice versa. I wish Echolalia would just tally up the votes already so that we can move on. However, I plan on voting Malkin next, so I know he'll give me the same s*** again.

Who's points do I ignore. I've already responded to yours and I don't agree with them. Besides, they weren't that good a points to begin with, except in your own mind. Don't blame me for not being able to change your mind on this issue. Why is playoff performace for another thread? It definitely belongs in this thread. You just ducked and dodged that argument. Crosby has been a better playoff performer than Datsyuk. I don't think you want to argue it, because you know it's true. That's a very important argument for who's a better player. Several times in your post you claimed that your were making points that couldn't be refuted. That's all I needed to know about you. You're just some paranoid poster who can't stand being disagreed with. I've explained my position on this already, yet you still say I duck and dodge issues. I haven't ducked or dodged anything. I've made my point a thousand times already in this thread, as crystal clear as possible. You have poor reading comprehension skills. I don't know what more you want of me? Get over it. I think Crosby is better than Datsyuk. Don't make me explain why again, because I did that in my last post. And yeah, acting like a reject is wrong, despite what you say. This isn't preschool, but it isn't a bar either. If you want to be an internet tough guy, go on some other site. People will respect you less if you act like an idiot who's always trying to start some s***. You're taking this all too seriously. Anyway, enough of this. You're not worth my time writing all this, especially since you're on ignore. I don't relish shooting mosquitos with elephant guns. Have a nice life.

Boogaard is a better fighter than Downey, but he's not that much more skilled, if at all. Then again, how do you define an enforcer that stares people down? It sounds like you have some unrealistic expectation about the role that a tough guy plays.

Yeah, but that's just their top pairing. They need more depth than that on defense.

What makes you think that most enforcers around the league have any more skill than Downey does? I don't think they do. For the most part, the top heavies are just guys that fight and do nothing else. I don't go on other teams' fan sites, but I wonder if any people there complain about having an enforcer in the lineup who can do nothing but fight? In fact, from what I remember on LGW, when Downey was up full-time a few years back, nobody here was complaining about his lack of skill.

If he wasn't cut for the NHL, he wouldn't be playing in it. The fact that several teams in recent years (including the Wings) have signed him shows that they believe he can do something to add to their team. You make it sound like he can't skate five feet without falling down or something.

Without Pronger and Beauchemin, their defense has gotten much weaker, especially with the ice time they ate up. This is a physical defense, but full of guys who are slow and have limited puck movement skills. They're in trouble on the blue-line.