GMRwings1983

Even with contracts, a player can still obviously be traded. There are many teams who'd love to have a PK man that has won multiple Cups. Despite that, I've never heard of Holland shipping Maltby around these last several seasons even after his production has gone down, and even after these other players have developed. The fact is that Maltby is still here with his low productivity, and Holland hasn't made a move to change that. To me it all comes back to loyalty with him, McCarty and Chelios.

I don't think he's really holding anyone back. There are many inconsistent forwards on this team like Sammy, Hudler, Flip, Cleary. None of them ever get benched for not producing like they're capable of at times. I don't think it's gotten to that point yet where he's absolutely ineffective, but then again he is one of the few players on this team who has immunity from me, so maybe I'm not seeing things clearly. The same arguments are actually being made about Chelios, who is another guy I've given immunity to. In all, I expect Maltby to play 82 games if healthy. Also, I don't remember Mac having to do anything to win a roster spot. Kopecky got hurt and Downey was sat for Mac who had just come back from GR. The decade that he spent in Detroit is what won him his roster spot.

Tell that to Brenden Morrow, who wanted to kill Sammy 2 years ago. Also, I didn't mention this in my previous post, but further proof of Holland's loyalty is in the way he gave McCarty a chance to come back last year and play in the playoffs. The truth is that no other team in the league would have given him a chance. Also, he's stated that he wants Mac back for this season, even though there isn't apparently any room for him on the roster. This should explain to everyone why Maltby is still on this team. Personally, I have no problem with that and want him to finish his career with the Wings. I don't know why Opie and several other posters want him gone so badly. He's never been a detriment before. I think any true Wings fan should want Maltby to come back next year as a regular on the roster. He's been a Wing since I was in middle school for crying out loud.

I know you didn't say Maltby was worthless. Him being one the shut-down line coincides with his defensive play/penalty killing, which I considered hand in hand. That's why I never mentioned it. The only one I'd disagree with you on is him being an instigator, which I think has tallied off a bit. You are right in saying that he's worsened over the years, which is why I believe Holland keeps him around because of loyalty. If not for that, he would have been moved about 5 years ago. As people have mentioned there are other guys who can kill penalties. So in all, I think his defensive game is part of it, but the fact that he's been here a long time is the chief reason for why he's still around. Also, believe it or not, I was actually defending Holland's actions on this one. So whoever jumped the gun on me, shame on you.

If you don't believe in my arguments, then why do you think Holland keeps him around? Everyone here thinks Holland is a god, so justify his keeping Maltby on the roster. Personally, I think he keeps him around because he's been a Wing for a long time and because he can still kill penalties. Loyalty is a part of this organization, unlike many others.

No reason for low blows now, Opie. Maltby does things out there that Sammy can't do with his defensive game and his occasional checking game, which has unfortunately tallied off a bit. Still, Maltby doesn't make stupid meaningless plays which take scoring opportunities away from other players. Not to mention, hardcore Wings fans want to see him in the lineup as a crowd favorite. Needless to say, Sammy is not a crowd favorite. BTW, Maltby is still a PK man. He was injured for much of the playoffs, which is why you didn't see him out there on the PK. It's nice how you twisted that around to suggest that he doesn't kill penalties anymore.

You mean, in the press box with your boy Sammy?

I hate Lilja?

He played one game, dude. I hope you were being sarcastic.

Pro-enforcer people believe the Wings should have an enforcer. Anti-enforcer people believe the Wings don't need or shouldn't have an enforcer. What's so hard to figure out about that? You're basically so concerned about the intricacies of your posts, that you're too far in the forest to see the trees of your own position. Are you saying that you're not against enforcers in the NHL but that you're against the Wings needing one? That doesn't make any sense if you're a Wings fan. I guess we have a different definition of anti-enforcer, which is why I suggested we don't argue about this anymore. It's your call really on where this continues.

I love Malts, but his contribution at this point isn't as great as Draper's. We've got too many veterans to just give out assistant captain titles to someone just for being old the way other teams do. Things should be kept the way they are now.

Issues? Everyone here hates Floppa. And if you didn't enjoy his contributions to game 3, there's something wrong with you. Watch it again, and tell me that it isn't funny to see the way their fans went crazy each time he touched the puck. They actually thought that gimp was going to make a difference despite their weak goaltending and their loser coach. It was hilarious.

Laugh all you want, but this year he'll move from being a top 10 NHL heavyweight to moving into the top 5. It's still a shame that the top heavies have been unwilling for so long to give him a chance to move up where he belongs. Remember the way the Pens sat Laraque as soon as they found out that Cheli would be sitting for Lilja? Just shameful if you ask me. Oh well, it took Tony Twist a while to become #1 also.

Is that Sakic guy still invisible? Which reminds me, game 3 is where Floppa made his triumphant return to the adulation of thousands of dumbass divealanche fans. His greatest move in the game was the penalty against Sammy. I can't wait to see that again. It's the last time we'll hopefully have to see that tool play.

I wouldn't mind watching that 8-2 elimination game one more time. My favorite part was when the divealanche scored late to make it 8-2, and their fans stood up for a loud ovation. That was classic.

I'm glad Yuri Butsayev didn't win one with the Wings. He just pissed me off when he was here with the way he played.

You're just too self righteous. How are your arguments strong? I see no arguments from your side that make any sense. It's just a bunch of hypocrisy from a guy who has the nerve to call me a flip-flopper. You have a few anti-enforcer posters on your side, so that gives you a little extra confidence to keep trying to start a flame war with me by telling me about how I need to grow up and stupid s*** like that. Well, it's not going to work. I'm going to do all my growing up by telling you that this is the last time I'm going to personally argue with you on this topic. Normally it's easy to get me into a flame war, but I'm not that way anymore. Anyway, get your head out of your a** for the next time we argue about anything. You tire me out with your crap. BTW, congratulations on being the first non-divealanche fan to come close to riling me up on this board.

You say my arguments are bad, but that's exactly what I think about your arguments. We did have an enforcer last year in the regular season and in the playoffs. Mac is more enforcer than he is anything else. Yeah, there weren't many fights in the playoffs, but fact is that we had an enforcer dressed for most of the playoff run and it didn't hurt us. It didn't hurt us in the regular season either. Why can't you and the other posters acknowledge that fact and stop talking about how we won the Cup without an enforcer. You guys sound like idiots when you say that. However, I'm not saying that we needed those enforcers to win, so there's no reason for me to argue that point, as you asked me to. We do, however, need them to stand up for players who are otherwise not fighters. That's what enforcers are and always have been throughout history. What makes you think the Wings don't need one while everyone else does? Hell, the Wings probably need a guy like that more than anybody, because everyone is always trying to take advantage of us physically. It's helpful to have someone who can offset all that and dish some beatings out in return. If you're O.K. with us winning and getting run at physically, than that's your deal. Personally, I don't think that says much about you, because I've stated before that there's more to pride than just winning. Norrisnick has stated that the Wings players should duck and cover whenever they're challenged to fight. I think that's ridiculous. I don't want to sit there watching Calgary or Anaheim attack our players, knowing that we have no one to go out there in retaliation. Anyway, I don't relish shooting a mosquito with an elephant gun, so I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you about this any further. See you later demon king.

You're welcome. Believe it or not, I actually read all that.

There are no regulars on the 4th line. 4th liners are guys whose spot on the roster is always iffy, and often depends on injuries and production. Whether you like to admit it or not, Downey was a regular, and McCarty was a regular for the playoffs.

I wasn't actually talking to you with that post. I was responding to that specific poster's description of enforcers as being not good enough nor important enough, while he at the same time stated that he has nothing against enforcers. That sounds like a stance against enforcers in general. You guys are being too hypocritical within your own posts.

Downey did have a regular roster spot, which is why his name is on the Cup. Come playoff time, the team had already signed McCarty, who in turn became a regular replacing Downey. Yeah, those guys played because of injuries, but that's inevitable. Injuries are a part of the game. If they were so useless, Babcock would have depleted the entire GR roster before letting either of them play. If Downey and McCarty had played, say 10 games total, then I'd agree with you that their role is minimal. However, they played far more games than that. You can't just look at stats and say that a player is meaningless. Who would have done the fighting if it wasn't for Downey? It would have meant more beatdowns for the likes of Cleary and Franzen. He had a role, and he did it properly. At this point, we have no one on the roster to fill that role.

Isn't your own description there the equivalent of being anti-enforcer. If that isn't anti-enforcer, than what the hell is?

Well, there's one thing I can finally agree with you on. Except for that unnecessary Freudian remark at the beginning of your post.

I can answer that with two words. Aaron Downey. Do you remember him, or are you another poster who thinks that his existence last year was an illusion? He seemed to find a place on this team beautifully, and none of the players seemed to complain about him. You guys make it sound like the players in the lockerroom looked at Downey as a joke, and wouldn't let him hang out with the team or something. The fact is that he did fit in on this team, and did a job no one else was willing, or able to do.