GMRwings1983

Oh, brother. I guess there's a lot of 8 year olds around the league then, because hockey has always had retribution as a part of the game. You make it sound like I'm the only one who thinks this way. I might be one of the few on LGW, but that's only because many people here have bought into the "no fighting" system the Wings have had for years. Fans around the league don't look at hockey as needing to be as soft as you do. In fact, your post looks like something written by a guy who's been a fan of a team that finishes last in the league every year in fighting majors. You're just justifying that part of the Wings system. Nothing wrong with that, but you don't have to be so self-righteous about it and start talking about maturity and stupid s*** like that.

Chelios to the Ducks.

Andreychuk will definitely get in. That's why I didn't include him on the list as a borderline guy. That Cup in 2004 will put him over a guy like Ciccarrelli who never won one.

The topic was titled "best ever", not your own personal favorites.

It's pointless to discuss Russia, because all those great "Red Army" players didn't play in the NHL. From what I've heard about some of those guys, they'd rank ahead of Fedorov or Bure.

What does maturity have anything to do with it? Fighting back has nothing to do with maturity or lack thereof, it's just a natural reaction. And I understand perfectly what the Wings mindset is. There's no reason for you to have to explain it to me. I just don't see how having more fights will have any effect on our system one way or another.

I can sum it up better simply by saying that "he's lazy and he sucks".

I guess Lilja is the equivalent of an extra-large condom.

I just thought I'd ask your guys' opinions on what you think the greatest line is in hockey history, or what the greatest line is that you've ever seen play. I think the French Connection is probably the greatest line in hockey history, because each of those guys fit a certain role, and they worked together beautifully. I'd put the "Trio Grande" with Bossy-Trottier-Gillies as 2nd best. You had Bossy as the finisher, Gillies as the tough guy who played in front of the net and cleared space, and Trottier, who could do anything out there on the ice. The best line I've ever seen personally was Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Hull. The way Pavel and Hank could set up Hull for one-timers was really something to watch. It was a prettier line to watch from a finesse standpoint before Homer took Hull's spot. Also, I was always fearful of that Tanguay-Forsberg-Hejduk line. They were a dangerous line where all 3 guys were on the same page constantly. They seemed to score goals just about every night. Anyway, feel free to post, and I'm hoping that many posters who have been around a lot longer than me will add more insight on the great lines of the past that they've witnessed.

They are two different things, but defending your teammates in a scrum often results in someone like Datsyuk or Cleary having to fight, and we all know they can't. I'd rather see a fighter do that task instead, which is what they're paid to do. I'm beginning to think that one of our skilled players has to get hurt in a fight before anyone here starts begging for some more toughness. All in all, most of LGW is content with guys like Franzen and Cleary doing the fighting. I personally think that's kind of silly, but what can I do. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out next year if we don't bring back Downey. And can people please stop making excuses about the Anaheim series. We had a chance to win that series but didn't. They outperformed us in the clutch. You all sound like those divealanche fans that were here months ago making excuses about how they only lost due to injuries. I'm sick of hearing that s***.

That's not a message. Other teams already know the Wings are skilled. In fact, that's the worst thing we can do, because it's basically like saying, "we won't fight back". That's what I think teams assume about the Wings already. That mindset has to be changed around in my mind. Also, if it happens in the regular season, which is where fighting usually occurs, the whole "tee time" reference isn't going to work.

They definitely underpaid him. I know I'll get blasted for saying this, but I'd much rather have him than Flip. They guy can be a force down low when he's healthy. I guess in saying that, health is probably the only reason they didn't pay him more.

Of course we have to be careful when to retaliate, but I always think back to game 5 against Calgary in 2007, or game 3 against Anaheim in 2007, and I can't believe we didn't try to retaliate, since both those games were blowouts by that point. Teams don't usually care about the score when they resort to dirty tactics. They're just trying to send a message instead. That's why we have to send them a message in return. I believe someone like Downey is better at sending that message than Franzen or Cleary are. I'd love to have a better enforcer than Downey, but that ship has already sailed. Also, I wish you guys would stop talking about the Roberts situation. Datsyuk did a good job of standing up for himself, but if the refs hadn't stepped in there, Datsyuk would have been in the hospital for the Cup celebration.

I guess you missed the Philly and Calgary games two years ago. No one stood up for anybody in those games. If some team does decide to rough it up next year, we're going to look pretty pathetic with Datsyuk and Franzen doing the fighting for their teammates. That's not their job nor should it be. Malone kept running Zetterberg in the Finals. Or did you forget that already? BTW, what's wrong with retribution?

I already explained why for Foote, and Blake is another guy who won several trophies and was a pretty good defenseman at both ends for over a decade. I can understand how others wouldn't include them on the list. That's why I thought it would be interesting to ask about these borderline guys. Why would you include Turgeon?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Yzerman yet as one of the best stickhandlers ever. In his prime he could do magic with that stick, and has many highlight goals to his record.

Foote is the hardest to judge amongst all, because he's a defensive defenseman, and so he can't really be judged by stats. There are several defensive defensemen in the HOF, but they played many decades ago. I included him because of the Cups and a Gold Medal, and the fact that he was one of the best in his own zone for a long time. Niewendyk is another interesting guy, because he won 3 Cups with 3 different teams, which includes a Conn Smythe trophy, a Calder Trophy and a Gold Medal to his career. That's why I thought he should be included.

Franzen - Zetterberg - Hossa Fillppula - Datsyuk - Holmstrom Maltby - Draper - Cleary Hudler - Helm - (Any Enforcer) Guys like Sammy, Mac, Kopecky and Abdelkalder would all be great fillers in case of injury.

I never did understand how a guy that emotional could ever compose himself enough to get back in net and be focused enough to be a goalie. Most goalies, even if they were that physically tough, could never have that much focus to shift from one emotion to another like that.

Bure was the best I've ever seen at full speed. I don't think anyone was a better stickhandler than him when going full blast. Datsyuk would certainly be on the list, but as harold already stated, it's too subjective.

Who do you think are the top 10 players in the NHL today based on all-time current ranking and the careers that they've had so far. Here's how I'd rank my list: 1. Lidstrom 2. Sakic 3. Brodeur 4. Chelios 5. Shanahan 6. Fedorov 7. Modano 8. Pronger 9. Niedermayer 10. Selanne

How do you figure Sundin has had a better career than those guys listed below him? All those guys should be above him, and not just because they won Cups.

Maybe you should start making excuses about how the only reason they beat us was because of injuries. It's been a long time since you've posted anything about that. Giguere was great against us in 2003 when he stole the series, and in 2007 when he outplayed Hasek in the clutch. That's the point I was trying to make before you jumped in with your dry joke.

Brind'Amour? I didn't even think about him, and I can't see how I could put him above any of those players I listed. He's had a great, solid career, but he was never one of the best forwards in the league. Every other guy on my list was always one of the best in the league at their position at some point.

I'm sure guys like Scott Parker and Derek Boogaard will s*** their pants after seeing that video.