GMRwings1983

The funny thing is that not only did we have Kocur for both Cups, but we also had McCarty for all of Scotty's tenure here. Yet somehow, Bowman is associated with marginalzing enforcers.

Just because the WIngs have had success recently has nothing to do with them not dressing enforcers. If every team followed suit, there would hardly be any more fighting in the league, and it wouldn't mean that every team would all of a sudden become great. Teams dress enfocers to protect players and because hockey, believe it or not, is a physical sport where fighting is sometimes unavoidable. An elimination of enfocers would be O.K. with you, but for many die hard fans that would be too much to handle. For instance, if we played Downey more often last year, then incidents like Franzen being beat up by Walker wouldn't have happened. Yeah nothing came out of it, but imagine if Franzen had gotten seriously hurt which he most certainly could have. It's situations like that which I'd like for the Wings to avoid. It's only a matter of time before someone starts going after Kronwall to make him back up his big checks. Would you rather see Kronwall fight or an enforcer to take his place?

If I haven't made it clear by now, there's not point to even answer. Oh and Mac had only 1 fight because he didn't play that many regular season games. In the playoffs we didn't need fighting because we didn't play any physical, dirty teams who dressed many fighters. For instance, if we played Anaheim, I believe there would have been many more fighting majors and a need for them.

Sorry if I put my rod too far up your ass, but at this point I don't remember which posters believe that fighters have a use and which don't. There's too many of you to keep track of. However, I'm pretty sure there are posters here besides norrisnick who believe that enforcers have no use. And my argument of "hockey history" has yet to be disproven probably because it's a pretty strong argument for why there is a need for fighters.

Thanks for that quote. Even Holland admits that other teams believe we're soft. I can't believe other posters were actually asking me for proof that other teams have that mindset towards Detroit. What does Hudler have anything to do with this thread?

Enough of this Stanley Cup s***. We don't win it every year, and the team that won it before us was full of enforcers. That doesn't change the fact that enforcers have always been useful throughout history and are still being used today. Where's your argument against that? The only argument you seem to have against enforcers having any use is that we won the Cup last year without an enforcer, even though we actually had 2. You're the one who has no argument. You're just a blind homer who doesn't understand that enforcers are important even if Holland doesn't think so.

Even more reason why I want him. Wouldn't you want to see him shove O'Halloran the next time a goal is waved off?

Carcillo was injured.

I didn't say a bunch, I said one or two enforcers. And I don't believe the majority of posters agree with me that Downey can do some good, since many posters believe that he's a waste of space who can't score and doesn't change anything around. I don't see how that means anyone is agreeing with me on the usefulness of enforcers. I guess some posters agree and some don't.

Maybe I also want to see a few guys on our team run someone down and start fights. That would be good to see for a change.

If they don't, then why the hell has this maddening thread gone on for so long? Oh well, at this point I don't think anyone knows what we're arguing about.

At this point, with his scoring going drastically down last year, he needs to retire.

Of course they do. But they also feel like they can run our players without any retaliation from any tough guys. We need someone there to change that mindset around, and I'm not talking about Datsyuk punching Roberts when the refs are in between them.

True and False. If we sign a few enforcers, the team won't have to change their style of play and will still succeed as a puck possession team. At the same time I can get some more entertainment knowing that we have guys who can throw down when the going gets tough. The anti-enforcer posters believe that gloom and doom will occur if someone like Downey plays 82 games next year. I don't believe it will. And I don't think losing Sammy or Hudler is all that catastrophic. We have enough skill players to make up for their loss and then some.

Then why would he even mention it? When you finish last in the league every year in fighting majors, guess what, that means you're going to be looked at as being softer than other teams. It's only human nature. Trust me, if some other team was last in fighting majors every year while the Wings were near the top, you'd be thinking the same thing about that team being soft. I'm not saying it means we can't win, I'm just saying that that's the outlook by other teams.

There's no reason to give you any long responses. Everything I've wanted to say in this thread I already said a long time ago, and have said many times before on other threads. The only reason I continue posting in this thread is for pure sport at this point. Also, I enjoy hearing some of you tell me about how insignificant enforcers are and how they don't change the game one way or another, knowing that they are still carried by just about every team in the league. I can't argue against posters who overlook hockey history so blatantly as if they know more than every team who has ever carried an enforcer.

Sorry to break the news to you, but toughness in hockey is often associated with fighting by both players and fans. Retaliating physically is thought to be tougher than retaliating on the scoreboard. I never said we don't fight for pucks, all I said is that at this point we have no one who can retaliate with their fists. Downey and Mac are still unsigned at this point. And believe it or not, the rest of the league will try to take advantage of that fact. The Wings are still viewed around the league as a soft team compared to others. That's not just me talking, because you hear that all the time from opposing teams, announcers and fans.

Right, because it's not like Holland has ever refused to carry an enforcer before. If that's true, then it's overblown all around the NHL and its fanbase, because that's how most hockey fans view a soft team. The people on this forum who stress that definition of softness may be in the LGW minority, but around the rest of the league, that's par for the course.

Seeing Lilja fight and seeing how Hossa will look playing with Pavel or Hank.

The last few seasons we've had enough injuries to let worse players than that play. The point is that there will always be room for guys like Downey and Mac. I prefer them to be regulars, but if not, they'd still be great reserve players to have come in for injured guys. It sounds like you'd rather have Matt Hussey dressed if he were still around, then have an enforcer take any spots.

Get off my back, wise guy. I was responding to the previous smart ass post.

Or an anti-enforcer forum where you guys can talk about how great Kopecky is and what a brilliant future he has, as well as wishing that every enforcer could score 20 goals and kill penalties.

That's actually the best way to describe exactly what I'm looking for and wanting. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with entertainment if you can still win at the same time.

Whatever you say, Sigmund. I don't know what psychiatry has anything to do with this debate. Who says a team can't win games and be middle of the pack in fighting majors at the same time? Is that really too much to desire. And yes, it does bother me when fans and players around the league view the Wings as a soft team that can be taken advantage of physically. Even when we win, it still bothers me that the team is looked upon that way. And the Stanley Cup isn't something that comes around every year. If this team doesn't win it next year, once again softness is going to be brought up, since there's nothing else anyone can point at as a criticism.

Likewise.