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Chicago fans were glad when Bell was moved. His problems didn't begin in San Jose. Cleary came into a training camp, impressed people, and earned a 1 year contract that didn't require a trade. Bell has been an embarassment to two different teams and the NHL as a whole, and would cost more than just money. They're not similar situations by any means. This is 2008. Bell is not a desirable acquisition.

Bell is a massive drunk and quite frankly, a stupid guy. Blaming Ron Wilson or the Toronto media for either of those issues is silly. I don't think there are many GMs out there that want anything to do with him after his San Jose debacle.

Stupid trade by Carolina. Wait another week or two and Commodore alone could fetch a massive overpayment. Every team wants a guy like him going into the playoffs. Corvo's below average defensive abilities are going to be exposed down there, and the guy is being paid way too much for simply being a mid-level PP specialist. Eaves could turn out to be good, but it's too early to decide on that. Carolina had a perfect playoff package to offer and they sold out way too early. Ottawa gets exactly what they need for the playoffs, and every team in the league looks worse right now. My question to Jim Rutherford: How on earth do you lose a trade when you're the seller?

I hate to say it but Fedorov seems to be a decent choice. -his scoring has gone down, but on Detroit he won't be doing any heavy lifting on the 2nd line. -he's extremely reliable defensively. -he would fit right into the puck control system. -the 2nd PP would improve tremendously with his presence at the point (for f***'s sake, Samuelsson and Chelios are running the 2nd PP right now). -he still has a knack for timely goals. -he'd be a cheap pick-up. I don't know of any other guy out there that fits those credentials. There are better pure goal scorers available, but they tend to lack everything else Fedorov has. I'm not a ex-Wings apologist (f*** McCarty and Lapointe, both are absolutely useless), but I can see the argument for Fedorov.

The guy has a 4.9 shooting percentage (it was 4.4 before yesterdays game, so he got a free .5 for having the puck go in off his leg). His shot is the epitome of Detroit's mysterious shot advantage, where yes, it's true we outshot the opponent 44-12 but 36 of those shots came from the sideboards with no traffic in front of the net. Samuelsson is an ok 3rd liner, but that's where I'm going to draw the line. He doesn't deserve PP time, he doesn't deserve a spot in the line-up over Hudler, and he certainly shouldn't be able to fail upwards into a 2nd line position - and yet he gets all of these perks because he has a wild shot apparently. The good news with this is that recovery from a broken jaw won't hinder Cleary's ability when the playoffs come along. This isn't a back, wrist, or ankle injury. The bad news is that our 2nd line PP gets even worse, which is remarkable considering we already have Chelios and Samuelsson on the point. I don't think Holland will make a panic move with Kronwall and Cleary now out. Regardless of their injuries, this team could still use a scoring forward who is useful on the PP. I think our defensive depth is good enough for the playoffs but the thought of losing Holmstrom, Zetterberg, or Datsyuk in the postseason scares the s*** out of me. On a side note, trading Franzen would be extremely dumb as he is a fantastic shut down center. LGW wants grit, but wants to trade one of our grittiest players away - this makes no sense.

Too many Wing fans think that he is this year's Kocur, so, I wouldn't go as far as to say that people know that his comeback attempt is futile.

Why would they trade Cleary? None of that makes any sense.

You have yet to provide me with any information as to how I am wrong. Datsyuk's shooting percentage has no correlation to his position. If you want to use this season as proof that it does, that's fine. I'm going to refute you with Zetterberg's numbers being way better at his current position, thus negating the need to swap them. As I said before, you cannot vilify projections and then use them as evidence in the same argument. And no matter how you'd like to spin it, 10 goals and 90 assists still equates to 100 goals scored. Even if Datsyuk finished with 5 goals and 80 assists, that does not make him any less of a threat when shooting. Just remember, there's a difference between being passionate and being stubborn. I'd like to see a sound argument come back, so that perhaps we could end up on some middle ground. I'm sure you'll ignore all of this, however, to call me a ******* retard again. I guess that's the risk I take when posting on the internet. edit: You know what, ignore this entire post and just read this: You've already had this discussion with someone earlier showing Datsyuk's stats. Your entire argument is based off the opinion that Datsyuk would score more at center due to whatever reasons you find valid. That's great, it's an opinion and I can respect that. MY opinion is that Datsyuk has been shooting from everywhere, not just off the left wing, and the pucks just aren't going in. Regardless of where he lines up for a faceoff, he's just not as fortunate as Zetterberg right now. You have one opinion, I have another. There are no stats in these opinions. The difference is that you resort to calling people "******* retards" when they post their opinion, while your opinion is to be regarded as fact. It's a good discussion with no right or wrong answer, other than the aforementioned problem of calling people "******* retards" just because they disagree with you and can't understand where you're coming from. Enjoy arguing for no reason, this thread has lost its purpose and regardless of what you believe, it's YOUR fault. Also, maybe that weird guy who brought in the completely different Zetterberg debate. He could certainly be blamed for something.

The only legitimate complaint is that Datsyuk isn't scoring enough goals. However, he's getting a ton of opportunities and is playing like a beast. The goals will come eventually if he keeps up this effort. Moving him to center has absolutely no effect on whether or not his shots from the slot go in. If Datsyuk were struggling, I'd agree with you. You claim to watch the games but I can't say that I believe that if you don't think Datsyuk has been extremely effective each and every shift.

You can't refute AND utilize stats from a 16 game spread in the same argument. Moving from LW to C will do absolutely nothing for shooting percentage. He could play defense and it still wouldn't matter, either the puck goes in or it doesn't.

Here's a question to end this silly debate: Q: How does moving Datsyuk to center increase his shooting percentage? A: It doesn't.

I love LGW for this. The dude gets in a decent scrap and suddenly he's nothing but a positive. Let's ignore his terrible skating, lack of any skill, and poor defensive play. The guy is a nuisance and his one skill does not make up for the rest of his terrible play.

What a crock of s***. I guess you can use whatever excuse you want to justify it, but it all boils down to one simple fact. This city is not Wing crazy right now. Tickets are way too expensive and nobody is going, that's why it's not loud. I like your idea though. It implies that loud arenas are filled with dumb fans. Also, all those so called Detroit fans in other cities? Yeah, also morons.

Babcock seems to agree with 20. 7 games isn't enough to map out the entire season, plain and simple. As has been mentioned, the Wings (and Hasek, specifically) are notoriously slow starters. I'm sure we'll all be having a late December/early January meltdown as well. Cleary hasn't been putting up the points but he's been playing well. There's no reason to believe that he'll have an unproductive year. It's the same sort of reasoning that would make us think Draper is somehow going to keep this pace and score 50+ goals this season. However, it's unreasonable to expect any of these guys to produce like an actual 2nd line. Hudler, Filppula, and Kronwall have all been extremely unimpressive. Lilja is terrible and his only redeeming quality was a "better than terrible" post-season. Drake has been invisible outside of some pointless fights. Maltby has been twice as invisible. Downey has been thrice as invisible. These things need to right themselves (Downey and Lilja may be physical impossibilities, however). My major concerns: 1. Get Lilja the hell off the ice. Luckily for him, there's a guy named McCabe, otherwise he'd be the worst defenseman in the league right now. How many blatant turnovers do we need to see before a youngster steps in? 2. Establish a 2nd line. Either find a scorer to place there or break up DZH. One line teams don't work and that's what we are right now. Losing Franzen hurt, but mainly because there was a problem in the first place. 3. Find our defensive game. Too many bad turnovers and too much wandering. #3 can/will be fixed soon, I'm sure. #1 will seemingly plague us forever. #2 is a realistic nightmare that might not be resolved in 6 months.

I'm a Wings fan, so Buffalo isn't my team nor do I live there. Anyway, it doesn't matter what team is better. Who gives a s*** about the label? It's not even about what team is better, it's just a marketing ploy. The whole idea is that Detroit isn't the be all end all of hockey and several cities can argue that. Being indignant because someone questions a stupid label is equally stupid.

Detroit isn't Hockeytown, whether you like it or not. Basketball, baseball, and football will ALWAYS take precedence given that the team isn't a complete joke. Buffalo fans are more rabid than Detroit fans post-lockout, it's extremely easy to see that. Hockeytown is just a bulls*** marketing ploy anyway. It works too, because every year you have people arguing one way or the other about it. Also, just for information - Numminen is going to be treated extremely well. That "suspension" is only so that Buffalo can skim some money off the top, which is the only way to go about things in the salary cap era. The jersey notion is equally ridiculous too, seeing as how Anaheim has horrible jerseys and yet they lifted the Cup this past June.

My favorite Dandenault moment was when he got called for a penalty and decided to give up on the play, allowing Kariya to take the puck, walk in, and score. Did I do this right?