Kutcher

So you said it yourself, he makes the players better than they would be, meaning he does not need quality players to play with. He gets it done by himself all the time, he gift wraps goals for Guys all the time. He doesn't have the talent, are you retarded or something he is arguably the 2nd BEST player in the league.

How could you not like the fact that the league is getting more competitive and just better as a whole? I mean wouldnt you rather see 82 GREAT hockey games than 60 okay ones and 22 that got boring after the 7th goal?

Maybe talent for a 2nd line scoring winger. The guy plays worse defense than a pylon on a lazy susan ! I am amazed that he makes more than $2mill, let alone considered an all-star, he's probably the worst d-man in the league.

His equipment is the same size in both those pics, the size of the pics skews the view and makes it seem like the latter is smaller. His hands are in the same position and are taking up the same amount of net, so how can the pads be of different measurements?

Why not get rid of goalies altogether and have the net shrunk to 6ft x 3ft? More scoring would occur right? /sarcasm off

As much as I hate this guys for being a whiney little ***** through his OHL and NHL drafts. He was one of the best players to ever skate on the ice. I mean he dominated teams when he was healthy, I'm not sure he deserves the HOF but I think he will get in because getting in is a joke lately, but he was most certainly not a bust. I think you may have taken too many shots too the head and you are just retarted now, I mean if you claim he was a bust than any other player who boasted a ppg over 1.0 across 13 seasons is also a bust.

He already did, and he hired Sirdrake as his assistant.

Maybe thats what hockey needs. Look at soccer, it is probably the biggest sport in the world and the goals per game is probably around 3. It's all about scoring chances and opportunity, getting close to scoring but getting robbed, scoring a couple fantastic goals a game.

True. But without shutdown forwards, and as many great 2-way forwards the defense and goalies would be under more of an assault. The lines with guys like draper and maltby that get put out against teams scoring lines to specifically shut them down wouldn't exist anymore, and let's face it that's probably the biggest reason behind the Wing's success. Without those extra teams in the league, you wouldn't be able to afford to give those spots to anyone , teams would opt for Marian Hossa or Jagr over a guy like Draper or Maltby.

And thats what makes him a scoring threat then. Like you just make a good argument against yourself. When he is on the ice there is a really good chance his team will score. That makes him a scoring threat. In Boston he didn't have half the line mates he has now and he still put up big numbers. So obviously he doesn't need great players to be great. HE makes the other players on his line better than they would be on any other line. The only reason Cheechoo scores as much as he does is because of Thornton.

Why don't they just contract the league so you have less one line teams ( like the Wings, Thrashers, Senators etc.) And then you'd have say 20 teams with 3 solid scoring lines. Imagine Dats-Zet-Homer then 2nd line Hossa-Kovalchuk-Bergeron for example. The problem is just that, there is not enough GOOD offensive talent to let the game go wide open, thats why coaches choose the defense first option. They don't have enough scorers to make the " lest just out score the other team" mentality work. So they decided to stop trying to outscore each other and now they try to shut down each other. They could also take out the instigator rule so skilled guys could do whatever they wanted without being checked, ala Wayne Gretzky, I mean they guy was great but put him in a league where he get checked constantly and his point totals are easily cut in half, maybe more. If you put some of the elite guys in the league now, on the 80's oilers or 90's kings instead of Gretzky their numbers would be pretty close, probably wouldn't beat his because he was that great but it was the times of the game that allowed him to be great. When has an elite player in this league had the chance of just dangling and not having to worry about being hit cause everyone knew if you touched him a big psycho was gonna break your face.

As I said you need to be a legit point getter aswell, making that comment about Kopy just proves your lack of crediblility. A power forward is not defined by just scoring goals, the words "scoring threat" mean more than just goals. If goals were all that mattered Thornton wouldn't have been 2nd in league scoring last season, and Ron Francis wouldn't have been indicted into the HOF. So assists are just as important to a power forward as goals.

Where is this definition that says, " A power forward must be a scoring threat " like honestly how is it any different that he gets assists instead of goals, he is still a big guy who can hit, fight and load up points on the score sheet. And his tenure in Boston proves his fighting capabilities, just you tube it.

When has he ever played with a legit set-up man? Never, saying he was a better power forward has nothing to do with goal scoring, its points and hits/fights, so by that measure he has been since he typically gets more points than Vinny and he does hit and if needed has shown he will fight. And yeah, I'm pretty sure if you put Malts on a line with Thornton he would score 30 goals, and have you seen most of his plays, they involve a beauty pass that is easy a pie to pop in the net. But I guess since Vinny gets more goals he's a better power forward, so I guess last years top power forward was Heatley right? cause he had more goals than everyone else?

I can guarentee that if Thornton was placed on a line with a premier set up man he would have no problem scoring 50+. And its not so much the guys around him being great, he makes them great, the plays he makes to set up goals are pretty spectacular. Anyone in the NHL could score 90% of the goals he assists on. And I put Thornton into that category because when he played with Boston he was more of a power forward than vinny is now. Maybe he lost his way in SJ but he still dishes out the big hit now and again, and if challenged I'm sure he'd drop the gloves.

I'll never complain as long as being a competitive team is the #1 concern of this organization. I don't bleed Red and White so they can make money and watch the same guys do nothing. I bleed it because the Wings will do whatever it takes to be competitive. Which every team should do. Example, Philly grabbing the biggest UFA name out there last summer.

So careless driving isn't illegal? Speeding isn't illegal? Vehicular Manslaughter is not illegal? Man I want to live in your world.

Explain how Thornton and Lecavlier aren't similar players? They are big and elite, throw their weight around, one sets up more than the other and one scores more. That's where the differences end, I mean if Thornton was with a setup man and not a goal scorer there is no reason why he wouldn't score 45+ a season. Just like if Vinny were with a goal scorer and not a setup man he would net 70+ assists a year. Either way, for either of them I'd trade anyone the Wings have, hell I'd even give them Dats a prospect and a 1st rounder if that's what it would take. I mean the guy is better than Dats and will be for 10+ years, and he's a better fighter than anyone on our team.

Friday: Toronto @ Buffalo Atlanta @ Florida Columbus @ Detroit St Louis @ Chicago Colorado @ Vancouver San Jose @ Anaheim Saturday: Montreal @ Ottawa Buffalo @ Boston NY Rangers @ Toronto New Jersey @ NY Islanders Pittsburgh @ Philadelphia Tampa Bay @ Washington Carolina @ Atlanta Columbus @ Nashville Edmonton @ Calgary Dallas @ Los Angeles Phoenix @ San Jose Sunday: Detroit @ Chicago Minnesota @ Colorado

That's fine by me. I think for a player of the caliber of Lecavalier anyone on the Wings is expendable. Vinny is as good as a power forward gets. The only player better at what he does is Thornton. And for all who said " not like it matters cause its not going to happen" that really wasn't the point of the thread. The thread was started to hear who/what you would trade for Vinny, not whether you thought it was possible.

I'd trade datsyuk or zetterberg straight up if Lecavlier were available.

3-0 wings hat trick Downey along with 15 pim's.

Given how strong of a team they have, given not many injuries to too many key guys, give they have a weak conference, I think they might do it.

I think it's funny how this loser thinks he deserves $15 mil. Honestly the guys lifetime earnings after taxes would have likely been around $10. That saying he actually played for 10 more years, which I doubt just because of his role and general lack of talent. I think if the Bertuzzi camp offers him $3-$5 mil Moore would be lucky. And he could recover if he works for it, look at Girgs he almost dies and is back playing, Moore isn't paralyzed. all that happened was a concussion and a broken vertibrae (sp). Hardly a career ending injury, I've had a friend end up with those injuries from a car accident and end up playing hockey 8 months later, ( at a junior level). So there's no reason to me why Moore can't get off his ass and either Work to make a team, or get a F-ing job like the rest of us have to do and earn your living and stop trying to be a mooching little *****.