SwedeLundin77

Oh, and of course the idiot gave him a full no trade in years 2 and 3 and a partial no trade in year 4. Can this guy stop handing out NTCs like they're candy.

LTIR is not guaranteed. There is zero guarantee of Kronwall, Ericsson, or Sproul starting on LTIR. Even so, they'll have to come off at some point. Then what? I hope you're being sarcastic... Kenny H for the Win!

So we still need room to sign Athanasiou... Right now, we don't have cap with no sign of Kronwall or Ericsson on LTIR. Hopefully, Holland can pull off a trade or two before the season starts. Don't forget that Bertuzzi is more than likely coming up full-time and Witkowski is basically our 13th forward. It's a sad state of affairs when the team we'll be icing is not worthy of being over the cap. Watch Tatar come out and put up 19 goals, 15 assists or some garbage. I hope not, but that's typically how it's gone with the newer guys on this squad.

I think you're misunderstanding what I am getting at. Yes, we are fine on cap space this season, but you need to move bodies out before their contract is up to get whatever assets you can before they walk for nothing. In Tatar's case, given what he has said, if we don't trade him between now and the trade deadline, he'll walk and we get nothing. Is he one of our top goal scorers? Yes. This doesn't change the fact that he's walking if the arbitration deal happens, and all signs point to that being the case now. Nyquist is on the books for next season and then we'll have to make a decision. This season will be paramount for him to bounce back and increase his value either to stay here longer or be traded. I am, first and foremost, advocating a trade of Tatar for a top D or top C (obviously a package). If Tatar doesn't improve this season and all signs point to him walking, you absolutely trade him for picks/prospects. They'll probably move Green at the deadline because getting younger is a goal. Maybe they keep him if his production rises yet again this season, but definitely not if they're out of the playoffs. Unless Howard puts together a strong season, he won't be tradeable, there's just no way a team takes a chance on him given his injury history. Mrazek could definitely be traded, but again, he needs to put together a strong season to up his stock, otherwise, we're looking at picks and prospects. Come on! Helm's contract is not tradeable, it's a bad contract. Ericsson is in the same boat and it seems like he's been battling injury issues since this past season. Also, both of them have NTCs, so that hurts. Here is a breakdown of next season: Forwards - Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Athanasiou, LARKIN, MANTHA Possibles - Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, Holmstrom, Smith Defensemen - DeKeyser, Daley, Kronwall, Ericsson, Ouellet, Jensen, Witkowski Possibles - Cholowski, Sulak, Hronek, Saarijarvi, McIlrath, Hicketts Goalies - Howard 2018/19 Cap Space (with proven players) : $22,079,166 - This includes Franzen on LTIR and Weiss's buyout We'll need to add 3-4 forwards and a starter or backup goaltender (depending on Mrazek). If you slot Tatar in at $5.5 million, another goalie around $5 million (assuming Howard's injury still plagues them), Athanasiou around $2 million, Mantha and Larkin around $2-3 million each (depending on performance this upcoming season), that would leave us with around $3.5 million in cap space. So, in theory, if you roll with that lineup and fill out the final 3 forward positions with our prospects (Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, and let's say Holmstrom) then we'll be around $1 to 1.5 million under the current $75 million cap. So, you're right, we don't need to trade Tatar or Nyquist to make things work next season, but it sure would be nice to have the cap flexibility to make necessary moves/trades if they come along. Being up against the cap with the team we have his crazy. Holland needs to flip some assets for what we need. And we NEED a top 2 D and a top 6 C. Sorry this is a flippin' novel. Did not intend to write that much. You are correct, they have up until the arbiter makes a ruling, to strike a deal. All signs point to no deal being made, given the difference in offers and the fact that he already turned down 5x5.... which is ridiculous since it's only 300k off his current ask.

Yeah, that's my hope. If the rumors last deadline were true, that is. Hopefully he bounces back and his value jumps higher and we can trade him in a package for top D or C.

Yes, we do need cap space, so trading Nyquist and/or Tatar makes sense in the long-run, given some of the youth we have in the pipeline. We need to re-sign Larkin and Mantha after this season, and if Larkin has a bounce-back and Mantha continues the way he was playing or improves, they're both in for a decent raise. Those two are more important than Tatar or Nyquist. It's an unfortunate byproduct of Holland handing bad contracts to Ericsson, Helm, Abdelkader, Nielsen, Glendening... Don't re-sign Helm, lower Abdelkaders AAV, don't pick up Nielsen, and lower Glendening's AAV and we don't have to worry about these secondary players like Tatar or Nyquist as much. But reality is reality and it would be better to trade Tatar in a package for a top D or C or for picks. You can then go a couple different routes; sign Vanek to 2 years at an affordable cap number or bring up Svechnikov now and play him with Zetterberg so he can learn from him while he's still producing. This does not equate to tanking. I wouldn't mind trading Mrazek, but only for the right return (top D or C). I also understand that it makes sense to give Mrazek another season to prove he's got it and if he does but an extension looks unlikely, trade him. If he continues to play poorly, try and part with him at the deadline. Or he plays great and we successfully extend him, Howard has one more season, and we can make that work.

Is Ras coming to training camp, or can he not because he's playing college hockey?

Well, I personally use it when a player is really only good at one side of the game. Tatar is a decent scorer but isn't relied upon for strong defense. He's not a 2-way forward and isn't put out in all situations.

If he goes to arbitration with the numbers as they were reported, he'll more than likely land around 4.75 million. That puts him in the league with Palmieri, Williams, Nyquist, Hornqvist, Soderberg, Bozak, Johansson... Those all seem very appropriate.

It's too bad that most of those players provide more than just points... unlike Tatar, who is one-dimensional. Hossa really isn't a fair comparison as he is older and toward the end of this contract. Also that contract, at the time, was a steal. 4.5-5 million is the sweet spot for Tatar, but I'd rather not have him on the books for more than 4 years.

Hahaha.... the best player on this team scored 46 points last season and most of his goals came after we were obviously eliminated. Zetterberg and Mantha are the best players currently. If Larkin can bounce back, he'll be better than Tatar as well. Tatar does not deserve to make nearly as much as Zetterberg. Tatar should be making between 4.5 and 5 million. If that 5x5 offer was real and he turned it down, he's an idiot.

No, you misunderstand. He said if he goes to arbitration, it's his last deal in Detroit, so if he walks then we lose him for nothing. If he goes to arbitration, there is a chance that we lose him for nothing, as teams may be reluctant to trade any decent assets for a soon-to-be UFA whos contract demands are pretty well known and unrealistic. The flip side is Holland overpays him because.... reasons. So don't overpay or lose him for nada. The middle ground being that we get him under contract right around 4.5-5.25 for 5 years or we sign him to a show-me contract for 1 year with the understanding that if he produces, we'll be there to sign him long-term for an increase in a year.

Just under 3 days to get a deal done with Tatar... Will it happen or will he go to arbitration? Please, Kenny, don't screw the pooch and overpay him, or lose him for nada!!!!

I'm pretty sure you can't say for sure that Bertuzzi won't be a top 9F, especially considering the fact that he has excelled with the Griffins over the past few seasons and has been very consistent. I'm not saying he'll be top 6, but I would be very confident in saying he'll be a 3rd line forward with some scoring ability that can flex to the top lines at times when injuries occur.

Well in 2019, at this point in time, we'll have the following players under contract: Forwards: Zetterberg Nielsen Abdelkader Helm Glendening Svechnikov Ehn Smith Defense: DeKeyser Ericsson Daley Cholowski Hronek Saarijarvi Obviously, this list will include Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, and possibly Sheahan & Ouellet. There is also no guarantee that Ehn, Smith, Cholowski, Hronek, and Saarijarvi pan out and are in the lineup, either. I'd be willing to wager that 3 of the 5 are at least starting for us by 2019. We should have the cap, if any of these guys reach, to make a competitive offer on someone. Hopefully we don't have to wait that long to shore up our top defensive pairing, but you never know.

It's good to always be positive, even in the face of great negativity.

I don't really care for Helene, but this right here makes a lot of sense. Offer him a 1-year deal and see if he picks his play up and improves/becomes more consistent. http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/07/11/red-wings-tomas-tatar/467904001/

I would be extremely uncomfortable signing Tatar to that long of a contract. He isn't multi-dimensional and there is no telling if he is capped at around 45-55 points per season or if there is more potential there. It's a hell of a risk to add another long term lucrative contract to a team that already needs to dump a few of those types of deals. I'm just saying, he is a piece that might be able to be used in a package to get a top 2 d-man. That only works, though, if he is signed to a shorter term contract at a reasonable price (4.5-5 million).

There it is! Tyler Johnson just signed for 7 years at 5 million per. There is your comparable. Tatar should get no more than $5 million per season. If he doesn't agree with that, adios, trade him.

In the long term, it does help... Tatar and Nyquist will more than likely never crack 55 points. We also need cap space in order to have flexibility if a free agent/trade comes along so we can get that coveted top 2 d-man. Also, next off-season we'll need to re-sign Larkin, Mantha, possibly Mrazek, Bertuzzi, possibly Coreau. If both Mantha & Larkin have solid years, which is possible, they could be in line for a reasonable increase. Nielsen at 5.25 over the next 5 years Abdelkader at 4.25 over the next 6 years Helm at 3.85 for the next 4 years Ericsson at 4.25 over the next 3 years Nyquist at 4.75 over the next 2 years (only if his production continues to be lackluster) That's 4 bad contracts, taking up 17.6 million and roster spots that kids are or are near ready to step into. Adding Tatar for 4+ years at 5.5 million+ isn't going to help this situation. It's a bad contract for a sub 50 point producer over the past 2 seasons. I'd rather they trade him and bring Svechnikov up now, let him learn from Zetterberg and other veterans. He didn't look out of place last season in limited action. AA is much more important. If both those guys have career years, which is possible, they could be in line for a reasonable increase. Lastly, if the rumors are true about Tatar being a turd are true, adios! Why pay a guy for a long period who shows he doesn't want to be here if things go to arbitration? That happens sometimes, but if he truly wanted to be here long-term, he wouldn't have said anything on the matter other than he hopes it doesn't go to arbitration. And I know, why would anyone want to be here with the mediocrity of all things right now, but that doesn't matter if the player doesn't match the culture the team has built over the past 30+ years. Same goes for Mrazek if what the reports said is accurate.

Well and he can score, sure... but he scored 25 goals and didn't break 50 points. He's more one-dimensional.... We can trade him for futures and develop Svech to take over his position. AA will get around 1.75-2.25 million. Similar to Sheahan's last deal. Count on it. You keep it up with that tagline. I agree with you, but it's just beyond annoying since it's in several different topics.

It's not in favor of old one-dimensional vets... I think the point is that in the short term you can supplement their scoring with vets like that. Signing Tatar to a long term, 5.5 million+ contract is a mistake, just like several other player contracts currently on the books. It's not 3 years ago and Tats and Nyquist have slumped 2 of those 3 years, so what would you have them do? You're right, fire Holland and Blash because under Holland we've handcuffed ourselves to bad contracts and under Blash, players have regressed 2 years in a row. It's a sad state of affairs, but regardless, I'd rather trade Tatar and sign a proven vet who can put up the same amount of points for a year or two while Svech, Rasmussen, Smith, etc get more experience in GR. Same goes for trading Nyquist unless he can prove he can bounce back and raise his ceiling slightly.

Okay, I was hoping that wasn't what you meant. I foresee him on a line with Nielsen. They had good chemistry last season (especially with Vanek on that line, too.

Pretty sure, if anything, his season and playoffs with Grand Rapids show that he is not a goon. Dude can play hockey, just not sure if he can play NHL hockey.

Hell, I'd even take Jagr. I'm definitely on board with this though. I wouldn't mind keeping Tatar over Nyquist. It just seems like Tatar doesn't want to play here given his recent interview.