titanium2

Damn you all with the MPS jinx!

It's exciting. It's too bad Anaheim still has Getzlaf. Zetterberg still has yet to figure him out.

I was waiting for someone to say this and crush all false hope.

Kronwall, Ericsson and Kindl all have Lidstrom as their favorite player I believe. You'd think that Lidstrom is the Yzerman model for defensemen but how do you emulate that kind of intelligence?

Haha Burke is such a tool.

...No way... As if I couldn't hate the Flyers more.

I'm hoping for the Finnish Jiri Hudler actually.

You mean you haven't done that already?

50% maximum I believe. Just look at Z and Mule's contracts.

Right... Because all the workouts and physical toll isn't worth any sort of compensation these days. All that money should go to the fat cat businessmen in the skybox who are severely underpaid and really worked hard for that money.

It's just a negotiation stage. There's still a real possibility that both parties will move and settle on some number +/- the $5mil compromise. Strangely enough I think Hossa needs the Wings more than the Wings need Hossa. Maybe 4.5 or 4.7?

Just curious. Can you sign anybody for 100k?

I know, but unless the injuries are really severe, Ericsson or Lilja or whoever can be a 3-5 game stopgap with an increase in minutes. Or maybe just an overall increase in minutes for whoever is healthy with the bulk of the increase going to a guy who plays the least amount of minutes, Big E or Lils. They've done that sort of thing before. Only a certain amount of minutes would go to whoever is a fill in for that night while an increase would go to the regulars overall. Again, that's an idea for like a groin pull or something like that. But if they were to encounter Stewie crashing his head into the boards or a spear into Nick's left nut then perhaps they'd qualify for LTIR and then they'd have to dip into GR. Big E with third pairing minutes is good, but he can't most definitely handle more. The same goes for Lils. That's why it's nice to have players on the 3rd pairing who really should be on the 2nd pairing. It's not the best idea, but I could live with it if Hossa signs for a 4mil cap hit. I'm not even sure if I'd have Kindl be the first back end call up. At this point Kolosov and Lashoff look better than him defensively.

You don't even have to do all that. The Wings have a cap space of 3.17 mil right? If he agrees to a 4 mil cap hit, they could just drop Meech and Lebda. I'd take a 4mil Hossa over a 3mil Huds+Lebda+Meech, again, if it's possible. Also, for those who worry about depth in case of injuries, I thought the Wings are filled with players who play on one line but deserve a notch higher in terms of minutes. Filppula played like 14-16 minutes a game this past season right? He's supposed to be the 2nd line center. I'm sure he'll love having to double shift between the 2nd and 3rd line in case of injury. It's only the Drapers and Maltbys that you can't double shift.

There's always Ozzie.

Lidstrom wasn't their top d-man? I don't know. Lidstrom was in his prime back then. It's really hard to say. Nick makes plays that few people notice while Vladdy was a pest with a real edge. You always notice Vladdy. I'm not saying one way or the other, but again, it's really hard to say.

Both Penguins teams were pretty special. The 97 Wings team was probably the best defensively. The 98 Wings team... well, nothing was going to stop them from winning for Vladdy.

"I'm not sure what my emotions are," general manager Ken Holland said Saturday afternoon. "I'm disappointed we didn't win, but our guys left it all on the line. They couldn't give any more. They pulled together, they played hurt, they picked each other up. Anaheim was a tough series, then we played a young Chicago team, then we had two days off before the finals. We played without Nicklas Lidstrom. We played without Brian Rafalski. We played without Pavel Datsyuk. Our guys gave every ounce of what they could." http://www.freep.com/article/20090614/SPOR.../906140536/1048 First of all, let's assume he's not just saying that for political purposes. It's just frustrating to watch the Wings sometimes. If you were to read through the GDT threads you would find many posters like to angrily question the Wings' effort and desire. Left it all on the line? Couldn't give anymore? That's not how some of us saw it. They have their games in which from our perspective they "don't show up until the third." And it's not just fans. Journalists have said it too. I know for sure that Ansar Khan wrote a lot about their "lack of urgency" during the finals. Even Babs has said it in his press conferences at times in the regular season and a few times during the playoffs. And it's not just a 'problem' of this year. Wings fans have made the same complaints year after year. It seems to me that from the Wings perspective, it's just a matter of style. The Wings like to play with patience, confidence and poise. They treat every game like a marathon process in which they gradually build their level of play so they can peak during the third. They don't often come out swinging hard like Mike Tyson looking for the knockout. On the other hand, from our perspective, the fans, we perceive that 'style' as a "lack of urgency," "failure to show up on time," "not trying hard enough" etc. Seemingly huge discrepancy. Why? They're the one who are in direct control of their level of play. What is it that they know that we don't? Is it simply, "They just have to play harder"? Are we just used to behavior often strongly correlated with a "North American style"? Used to it so much that we don't know how to look for certain nuances in the Wings style? I don't have any examples. I'm just asking the questions. I'm betting that this is just one of those questions in which the answer is both. Some days they didn't appear to play hard enough because of a lack of emotional engagement. Some days they probably just couldn't give anymore and were too banged up. In the end, I trust that everything the Wings do is about winning no matter how it looks from a fan's perspective. I think after we all saw that list of injuries we were left with a sense of wonder as to how they got as far as they did.

Isn't Detroit on the good majority of players' lists? Unless your name is Roenick.

I was going to say this, but he's suggested it so many times. That delusion isn't going to break.

He's not hated. He's just not as flashy as Datsyuk. He's also boring with the media. Datsyuk likes to joke around while Zetterberg just wants to get the hell out of there but who could blame him? So would I.

He'd look okay next to Filppula. Or you can dream about an all Finnish line with Leino on RW.

I hope they get rid of one of Meech and Lebda. They probably will in order to resign their depth up front. I know we're supposed to like Meech because he's a stopgap at forward but don't you all remember Mathieu Dandenault? Don't we know how the Meech story is going to end? Sometimes I wonder if Lilja's shakiness during the 07-08 season was due to his free agency. I mean, this past year he was really, really solid.

To be fair, Darren Helm played on average 12 and a half minutes a game in the playoffs. He admitted earlier in the regular season how in GR he had to pace himself because there he got the 19-20 minutes or whatever but in DET he was allowed to go balls to the wall averaging 9-12. Helm and Sammy really made that third line go. Only averaging 12-15 minutes a game allows to give more energy as opposed to the Zetterbergs and Datsyuks who have to make sure they play at a high level for 20 minutes. Now, if you want to question Hudler, then I'd give you that one a little. He's just too slow and that Brown hit probably made him afraid of contact. He won't admit it, but it's just the typical biological fight or flight response. After a traumatic hit where you see your own blood chances are you're more likely to flight the next time contact comes. There's a reason why Babs yells at Hudler a lot. He's had a problem with effort and attitude ever since GR, but has made improvements. Whether or not those improvements are good enough to solidify a roster spot for him is up for debate. At the same time, I don't see how Leino is an improvement over Hudler. He has the same determination problems. The only difference important to the playoffs is that Leino plays down low around the boards more often and protects the puck better when he isn't diving.

I've tried to form my own thoughts and opinions and yet at the end of the day I'm going with Kenny's statement. I just don't see how the Wings didn't give everything they could; even throughout those moments in which from our perspective they "didn't play with any urgency." Is it really as simple as if the Wings are getting beat to loose pucks and losing races all over the ice that they didn't play with any urgency? I don't think so. Oh, and in response to balls sliced open comment, I'm thinking of adding Patrick Sharp to the elite s*** list of hated players in with Lemieux, Pronger and Perry at the top. What a low blow. How do you beat the red wings? Well, you spear them in the balls.