DenJ91

OMG i'm starting to regret making this topic, what is wrong with some people!!! SPEZZA??? geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus

you didn't say the cup, and i even said you didn't say that, read my post. but you did say he's a disappointment based on just one season of him being in the playoffs and not getting out of the first round. that's honestly one of the dumbest things i've ever read, and you're alone here. others who have responded even agree that is an absurd thing to say. you do realize that like gordiesid said even yzerman and so many other legends didn't get their teams out of the first round let alone into the playoffs their first few seasons. AND the sens ended up making it to the cup finals, they were the team to beat, not the pens last year. so i'm moving on from this, it's so dumb it's hurting my head. i'll look forward to you saying better things in another thread. not trying to be disrespectful honest, this is a forum afterall. i don't like arguing with a fellow fedorov fan, it's just not right.

haha funny how you crossbed most of it out focusing on the crosby part. i agree, when with ya. when i created the topic, i never in a million years would have thought someone would post crosby as a disappointment. it's insane. so hopefully it gets back to regular players who make sense. glad you liked the idea of the topic though. pavel brendl is def one!! dude scored mad amounts of goals before being drafted.

haha, first i never said you WERE an idiot, i said "it's like asking to be called an idiot". i think you'll be basically alone on the entire forum to say crosby is not top 2. to say lidstrom is better is being a blatent homer. and since when is philly home for pittsburgh?? you realize they are 6 1/2 hours apart right? at least i think that's what you trying to say when you called me a penguins-homer. anywho, i'm a red wings fan first and foremost, and i love lidstrom, but he is not top 2, questionably top 4 to me. it's hard to debate because it's a who is better overall topic and if i really took the time to break down each of the top 5 players in my mind i'd have a better result for you. oh and i'm not wrong, i'm never wrong. how long is it gonna take for people around here to realize that. haha nah i'm kidding!! i've actually admitted to having my opinions swayed here and there. and gordiesid&ted, we are def on the same page today!! where were you in the ovechkin thread when i needed ya!! lol

i've played semi-pro roller hockey, it's not the dream. haha

wow, saying that crosby isn't top 2 best players is like asking to be called an idiot.

yup, if your going that route, how about claude boivin for the flyers, picked ahead of selanne and i'm sure other great players that year. boivin was their first pick i think edit: ok i was wrong selanne was picked just a couple spots before boivin, however boivin was picked by the flyers 12th overall ahead of players like recchi, mogilny, rob blake and tony amonte to name a few. boivin scored just 12 goals in his nhl career! haha

i was totally gonna start yelling at everyone for saying the habs suck and whatnot and i couldn't figure out why koivu would say that now of all times until i looked at the date of the thread. whew!!

because your basically saying that because the guy didn't win the cup in his first playoff season, he's not lived up to his hype. it's ridiculous! i don't care if you come back with saying he just needed to get to the 2nd round, it's just as ridiculous. you can't base anything on one year in the playoffs. he did his part, it's not his fault the pens didn't make it to the 2nd round last season. give the guy 5 years in the playoffs before you say something like this. i mean seriously, i can't believe you're actually saying these things

um, so your basically basing the 1 and only year that crosby has been in the playoffs with the penquins as "not getting them out of the first round". your basing your argument on 1 year??? wow, how many hundreds of star players in nhl history have gone 1 single playoff year not getting into the 2nd round. this is absurd. btw, he had 3 goals and 2 assists in the 5 games he played in the playoffs last year which incase you haven't figured out is a ppg. i'd say he produced in the playoffs and he will this playoff season as well. and why are people calling the rest of the capitals practically crap!!? that really bothers me. most of them are very young and will mature, just like other teams have been over the past years. backstrom is a great player, semin is a sniper, fedorov is thriving there, nylander although hurt is always solid, chris clark is a good player, mike green is the next paul coffey, cristobal huet is a top notch goalie. brooks laich is scoring. they lack in depth on the 3rd and 4th line and half of their defense, but to call them scrubs or stamkos (which i have no idea what that means) is crazy.

i agree that crosby is the best player but in no way would i say "bar none". i mean ovechkin is a better scorer, one could say that someone like marc savard is as good a passer as sid with much much much less talented players to pass too, and certainly there are better skaters than sid like gaborik, but when you put everything together (passing, scoring, skating) along with sid's creativety and guts to try things other wouldn't, his drive to win, his fiestyness and heart etc, he is the BEST overall player.

yeah i guess i can agree with that. i'm not sure what he was hyped to become. he was never really a scorer, but very early in his career he put up 70 assists one season and had a couple 50 assists seasons. after that though his #'s went down alot and became kinda mediocre so i can agree he became disappointing.

we actually are also in agreement in the ovechkin thread, is this really happening. well hope it continues, i don't like being on your bad side. haha.

wow!! is this really happening! you and i are in complete agreement on an issue!?? haha. and we were actually thinking the same #'s too, like 150 pts and came up with similar responses. i was in the middle of typing when you finished. crazy. wonder if this will ever happen again. lol

another thing to consider as i agree with what your saying, is that we shouldn't compare today's players to gretzky. it was a different game then, be it goalies, scoring averages for a game, etc etc. we will never see another 200 pt season, we'll be lucky if a player gets 150. i don't think it's fair to hype someone up as the next gretzky anymore and expect numbers like that, because the game is so different. i think we should hold different standards at around 100pt seasons, which crosby has done 2 seasons now and would easily have done it again this year had he not gotten hurt. and i don't think it's fair to wonder if ovechkin will ever hit 92 goals, it's ridiculous in today's game. i mean we haven't had a 60 goal scorer in 12/13 years, so why would someone get 92 ya know?

i'm sorry bro, but i can't agree with your crosby logic here, i just can't. first off it's more than just malkin stepping up to the plate, others have been key like malone and conklin and sykora, gonchar etc, but if a team plays hard enough through adversity they can still win. when a player like crosby goes down they could have easily said "wow we're done" but they didn't, if they had we would know just how important crosby is. the fact is, crosby is the best overall player in the league, his injury shouldn't change that. remember in the early/mid 90's when yzerman went down with alot of injuries especially 93-94 when our boy fedorov took over and won mvp and had 56 goals. it's a similar sitution, your practically calling our legendary yzerman a disappointment cause he had injuries and therefore isn't a true mvp type player. plus i really don't think it's right how the capitals as a team get bashed so much. they have alot of depth now. obviously ovechkin carries them but there are some really good players on that team who hold their own. who knows how the caps would do without ovie, maybe semin would step up and score 50 goals and be the malkin to the pens crosby situation. we'll never know.

i left off samsonov on purpose actually. he started out great, won the rookie of the year, had a few great seasons and was very exciting and a threat at all times, then the past couple seasons he just went downhill so quickly and his confidence was shattered. i left him out cause he's playing well now and looks like he's found a good fit in carolina and i'm not convinced sergei is done yet. oh and keep in mind, i was saying that they could be considered disapponting on many factors, not just the "hype" factor like some are pushing to the front now like Daze. i agree i don't think he was a hyped player pre draft, but had a few good seasons and thus became hyped.

haha, pat falloon, that's a name i haven't heard in a while, good one! and stefan and chistov, all of the ones you listed are good, except i think viktor kozlov isn't all that dissapointing. he's been solid at times and is a good 2nd liner. i'm leaving players like that out that have had success and play good for the most part. but the crosby thing i don't get. you guys really think he's a disappointment or is it cause you don't like him? and i'm not sure how his injury shows he isn't a true mvp candidate, i'm missing your point there sorry. i don't know what more sidney could be doing really. if he didn't get hurt this year, we wouldn't be talking about malkin as much and just cause malkin is playing great doesn't mean sidney is any less than he was before the injury.

WOW, your dissapointed in crosby? he's easily averaging over a point per game as a teenager, won the mvp his 2nd year, if he wasn't hurt this year he'd be in the running for mvp again and probably would have led the league in pts and the penquins in 1st place in the east. he might play tonight and the penguins have a good chance at winning the cup this year. i'd say he's been nothing short of amazing and just about everything he's been hyped to be and he's not in his prime yet. and to the guy who said petr klima. ok so he had a downward 2nd half of his career but he had injuries and such, but for a while the guy was scoring 30 and 40 goals even one year. he finished with over 300 goals and close to 600 pts. i'd say that's pretty successful. i don't think klima was ever hyped enough to be called a disappointment.

i think the capitals get a bad wrap too often about being a bad team. they are 3rd in pts i think since the all star break, don't quote me on that, but they aren't a bad team, they had a bad start and stretch under hanlon. i think their defense is weak, and lack some depth on the 3rd and 4th line but they are no slouches as a whole. backstrom is making a run for the calder trophy, an amazing talent, one of the best passers in the league. alex semin while being dissappointing is a stud and needs to shoot the puck more!!! viktor kozlov has had a great 2nd half. nylander is always consistent but has been hurt. with the addition of fedorov, although not the scoring threat he used to be(also needs to shoot more) has provided a TON and is playing very good. huet is a top notch goalie in my opinion and cooke gives you that added depth and grit they needed. let's not forget mike green who hopefully will turn into the next paul coffey. brooks laich has even played well gettind 20 goals. i'm just saying alot of times people say the capitals suck, i just think they played poorly, but the talent is there and will def be a force for many years to come. despite that, ovie has still carried the team bottom line.

dammit i was hoping i'd be the first to say probert vs mcsorely. i think that was in 1994. i have it on tape actually and i showed it as a presentation on hockey in gym class when i was in 11th grade. the class loved it. the fight literally went on for 2 minutes.

it's tough to say because they're plus and minus' for both rulings. i'm tired of seeing so many injuries and dangerous hits. if i had to choose, i'd say leave touch icing the way it is, but make it a double minor for hitting when the ref's arm is up for an icing call. like others have said, there is no reason to hit the player your racing because hitting him isn't going to let you touch it first which is your goal. plus it's just flat out dangerous. such a shame for foster, he's a good defenseman and he's going to miss the playoffs and it's such a bad injury who knows if he'll ever really be the same.

alright icemunkee, i was wrong, i admitted it as did you. we're cool again. it totally went sour quick and you're no longer my lgw rival! haha. as for the pavel guy, i'm not sure cause he's stoned and i just don't trust him. lol jk bro.

if you think me calling someone stupid is the same as a reference to hitler so be it. i'm agreeing that i probably shouldn't have said that, it just seems un real to me how others could see it another way. yes i'm sorry i shouldn't have done that. i read through your bull on the first post when you told me that you value my opinion, i responded saying the same to be nice but i knew you didn't mean it. nice quote at the end there by the way, i actually like it. i'd be curious now to see how many people think the sharks wouldn't be very good without nabokov but you can start that thread. i'm done with this, it's getting nowhere so yes, agree to disagree. it's fun having a forum rival though, i seem to have a few already. if everyone did agree with me, it'd be no fun.

i'm aware of history and how the generally don't give it to players who don't get their team into the playoffs and thanks for calling me stupid, i think i'll go cry now. and by the way, you said "win the playoffs". so now your talking about the conn smyth trophy but i know what you meant. so anyway my answer to that is, basically every team has been in the playoff race all year. there is only a 5 pt gap between 8th seed and 11th place in both conferences (making that up but i'm pretty close). the caps are 2 pts out right now. when have we ever had such a tight race for the playoffs? it's a different structure in today's nhl. to overlook a player because he didn't put his team in the playoffs by a couple points would be unfair. don't be such an old school traditionalists. as the game changes, so should your opinions. and to those reading this and getting annoyed by the arguments, since i suppose i started it, although never making personal attacks i'm sorry and from now on i will do my best to argue without saying others are stupid. i don't like when it gets to the point where someone is insulted like i was so let's just end this dumb crap. i think ovie wins it, icemunkee you think malkin i guess, others think malkin or maybe brodeur or lidstrom. so be it, i just don't care anymore