DenJ91

dude you need to chill out, you just called me mini hitler, i don't think that's funny or smart on your part. i'm sorry you're one of the few to fail to see why ovie deserves the hart hands down. i feel sorry for you, if you wanna make this kinda of personal attack on me, then it's on, cause i never attacked you like that. and i'm glad that you called yourself stupid, now i don't have too. this started out friendly, but you just can't handle the fact that i called you out on some of your points. one could say i do the same, but i would never make personal insults or refer to someone as hitler and think it's funny. just makes you look bad. if you wanna call truce that's fine, i don't honestly care about you and your opinion anymore. i'm sure we'll have our differences from now on. oh and nabokov?? now your just being silly again. nothing taken away from nabokov but even if they had toskala still in net, the sharks would still be a powerhouse. they are just such a good team overall. end of that story i'm a very opinionated person, i don't enjoy arguing with people, sometimes when i try to explain my side of things i guess i come off alittle strong and perhaps insulting. i never try to make it that way but it can easily be taken that way so sorry about that to some of you. what would be the point of forums if people always agreed with eachother. i never said anyone had to agree with me even if it comes off like that. this is just one topic i fail to understand how anyone could challange the agrument of ovie for the hart. eva and others pointed out many great agruments for the case, go call them stupid now, or i guess you're just worried about me cause i put your name in my replies. i mean i knew i'd get some crap for my last post, which is why i said "go ahead and bash me", but i didn't expect hitler remarks, that's just immature.

givem me a break, you failed his challenge because you are a blinded homer. the wings are my squad and lidstrom is a fav of mine so no disrespect to either cause i'm a homer too but i'm not blind. lidstrom won't even finish top 3 in mvp voting rightfully so. he can take home the norris again though. first off there are alot of defensmen on teams that play nearly half the game and are part of good defenses. and to say that it was just him when the wings were on the losing streak is dumb, zetterberg was out at times, maltby, draper, hasek, holmstrom, kronwall, just about everyone at times was hurt. detroit has zetterberg, datysuk, holmstrom, hasek, osgood etc, aside from lidstrom, all of which are very important and half were all stars this year. to me, zetterberg and or datysuk are almost as important to the team as lidstrom is. the two night in and night out are relied apon for our offense. ovechkin goes down for say 20 games, and i highly doubt they are going to win much. not taking away anything from backstrom and semin and viktor kozlov but they aren't going to put up numbers like either Z or dats would. nylander has been out for a while and they have still been winning. their captain chris clark who is very important to the caps has been out almost all year. the caps have depth too, but not explosive depth. backstrom is around 40pts behind ovechkin in points and he's played all season. malkin is around 30 pts ahead of crosby, but crosby has been hurt. if crosby had been playing all this time, he'd be leading the way, and we wouldn't be talking about malkin as much and i would say malkin would have around 80pts right now instead of the 98 or whatever he has. zetterberg and datsyuk have similar stats and are among the top 10 in scoring i think, lidstrom is number 1 in pts among dmen, so it's clear who's more valuable. some nights if not not 50% of the nights, ovechkin carried the team to victory one way or the other whether it's scoring, pumping up the team with his celebrations or making a big hit. i've said this before but i honestly can't believe this is even an issue. those of you who think you MUST make the playoffs to win the hart need to wake up. i garauntee ovie wins the hart by a landslide. brodeur possibly 2nd and malkin 3rd. the devils with almost any other goalie aren't in the playoffs most seasons, they just don't score enough goals., and they don't have the stacked defense they once had. icemunkee, you think malkin's defesensive abilities are top notch then over ovechkin's? i don't think so. ovie is a +23, that's pretty impressive. he is trusted enough to go on the ice when the other team pulls the goalie for the extra man. i'm sure it has to do with his explosiveness and want for the puck to score the empty net, but you also have to be responsible in that situation. i mean if a forward has to have every quality to win the hart, that's being alittle over the top. i mean how is that fair when goalies just have to stop the puck right? should they have to have more than 4 assists and score a goal. of course i'm just being sarcastic but save the defensive side for the selke trophy, that's why it exists. plus i don't think there is a conspiracy against ovie, he gets tons of media coverage.

there's only so much one guy can do. nylander went down, chris clark has been out almost all year, ovechkin has carried them team all season long. malkin has a good supporting cast even without crosby and i HIGHLY doubt the penquins would have been in that much trouble without crosby, just like it's shown because malkin is that good. but he didn't carry the team like ovie did/has. next level or not, he's the best player in the league, that's what the hart should stand for. carrying your team on your back in the playoffs or 1 pt out or being the worst team in the league it doesn't matter, he's the best. don't fault him for his team's play. there's a 40 pt gap between him and backstrom, if crosby was playing all season, he'd be leading the penquins in points. ovie leads the team in goals, pts, hits, is a +23, he leads them to comeback wins, he shows more emotion than anyone in the league. he's exciting to watch. he does everything you want a player to do. we probably won't see another season like this for a long time. i don't think he'll do this next year, he'll have more help as his team matures and they will get into the playoffs more so as a team, even if ovie does score 50 again next year. this is a remarkable season you are witnessing from him. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND!!?? i'm really starting to wonder about some people on these forums.

this is becoming ridiculous honestly. there are so many threads about this, i'm going to go as far as saying if you don't think ovechkin deserves the hart this year playoffs or not, than you don't know hockey. bash me all you want i don't care, ovechkin will easily win the hart. you should be embarrased of yourself if you think someone else should get it, it's not even close and don't honestly understand why this is even up for discussion at this point. as someone else pointed out in the other ovechkin thread, that teams are so close to eachother for playoffs, within 5 pts or so, the caps are out by 1 pt right now. so are you willing to tell me that if the caps miss the playoffs by 1 pt, that he doesn't deserve it. that's just stupid. i could go on and on why he wins it and why others don't, but if it's not obvious, i feel sorry for you

i got the feeling he was coming back when he was talking about a possible outdoor game next season between the wings and rangers. he sounded excited about it, so obviously i was thinking "well he's playing another year then". love cheli! hope he never retires

some of you are really reaching to find some reason why ovie shouldn't win it. it's ridiculous. ice munkee, no one went as far to say your words are bulls*** by the way. the red wings play in a weak division, does that mean zetterberg and datsyuk don't deserve credit for being as good as they are?? it's such a dumb argument, ovie plays just as well against any team as do dats and z. capitals will be looking at alot of hardware this season ovie - hart, art ross, richard, pearson backstrom - calder boudreau - jack adams AND i'm gonna say boston will fall out of the playoffs and the caps in. hell if the caps can beat the hurricanes two more times with some help they can grab the 3rd seed still.

well thanks for saying that bout me at the end, and the same goes to you, not like i was trying to bash you or anything. but anyway, it just seemed like you were saying you didn't like his celebrations. i don't really think ovechkin wanted to leave, i'm sure he knew they wanted him to stay, if anything it was just a reason for him to get the message across to the caps that he wanted to win, and win now so do what it takes, which is also why they made the 3 deadline moves and ovechkin has absolutely loved having fedorov there. keep in mind he isn't just scoring goals, he does have 40+ assists and also leads the team in hits so he's doing more than people think. i wouldn't worry about the money issue too much, the cap should go up some again next year, they have some key players to re-sign like green, fedorov, huet, cooke to name a few and hopefully they can acomplish that. they have a solid core of players to build around, they are an exciting team to watch.

ice munkee, usually you have some good things to say but this isn't one to remember. your worried about him having active celebrations?? it's so refreshing to see someone care that much even when someone else scores. i wish there were more like him celebrating like that. just him celebrating like that sparks the entire team, it rubs off and that's a bad thing? he's not handicapping the team, and it's not as if he "demanded" that money, it's what he's worth and i'm sure the caps were more than happy to lock him up. and also how are they not successful, they are 1 pt back of the playoffs right now. AND you think he'll only get the mvp cause he hit the 60 goal mark. AND you think he's similar to gretzky, i don't think they are ANYTHING alike. i'm sorry bro, but i basically couldn't disagree more with everything you said.

anyone still have a problem with ovechkin as mvp??? he just had a 4 pt night, 3 in the last 10 mins of the game to lead the caps to victory. of course credit goes to mike green for starting that end to end rush and dishing it to backstrom for the 2nd goal which really sparked the team, then ovie getting the puck off the faceoff behind the net and passing out front to backstrom. WOW!!! edit: actually i think the green rush was on the caps tying goal, yeah then backstrom scored again to give them the lead. either way, just awesome.

and how many 60+ goal scorers have we had over the past say 10-15 seasons?? 50 goals and 100 pts are considered amazing seasons in todays game, over that and we're talking automatic hart mention. the fact that ovechkin is scoring 60+ goals against todays goalies and defenses is nothing short of incredible. next closest is kovalchuk who is another pure goalscoring talent with 49 i think. we will probably have only 3, 50 goal scorers so for ovie to get over 60 and lead the league in pts and his team either into the playoffs or damn near close at the end is special. we are witnessing a one of a kind player.

it would be called "the type of season ovechkin is having". it should happen more often. it's the regular season most valuable player. not one players has been better than ovechkin this year, if they miss the playoffs, it will be by only a point or two, and he's the reason they are that close. it just wouldn't be right if he didn't win it. last time someone won without going to the playoffs was lemieux wasn't it?? don't quote me on that, could be wrong.

come on now, ovechkin wins the hart for sure playoffs or not. i'm tired of the two having to go together. 27% of his teams goals, i think malkin is 16% of the pens goals. without ovechkin, the caps are in last place in the league especially with the injuries to nylander and clark. if he doesn't win the hart, the art ross, rocket richard, and pearson awards, i'd be shocked. lidstrom will get the norris, not even top 3 for mvp sorry.

i'm not sure if this has ever been brought up before, i haven't seen it, but in anycase, i'm on the capitals forums also, and we came up with an interesting discussion about what players would make it into the hall of fame if they retired after this season. you could aslo add to this by naming players such as crosby and ovechkin, players you think would make it in, say 15 years from now but that would make our lists quite long as well so for now i'll keep it to just the original topic. here's how i see it: (keep in mind it's called "hockey hall of fame" and not "nhl hall of fame") a couple people on the other forums forget that. i hope i don't miss someone that i just blanked on. Locks fedorov brodeur shanahan selanne roenick sakic hasek lidstrom sundin jagr modano chelios good shot forsberg recchi kariya belfour s. neidermeyer mogilny (even though he's not active i know, although he should be on a team) outside chance (although slim) tkachuk roberts lindros kolzig kovalev osgood r. blake cujo nolan weight brinda'mour koivu zubov naslund pronger

well i did say that kovalev had a shot at it and i put naslund in the outside chance list. i don't neccesarily think either will get in but that's why i don't have them in the lock category. i think someone else post that naslund was a lock and i disagreed. as for the arguining with me part, i think it's happened a couple times, most likely in a fedorov topic, after all i can't seem to go one topic without mentioning him. lol. it's all good anyway, i was messin' around with ya. i do recall one time you getting my back though too.

ya know what i think it is, you just like to argue with me! haha. nah but i see your point and i def agree about 90% of people who think ozzie should be in the hall of fame are wings fans. i still think trying to be unbiased that he has the numbers and criteria to support hall of fame mention, although i would probably downgrade him to "outside chance" category. as for the guy who put naslund in as a lock, i have to disagree, i'm a naslund fan but he didn't really blossum until at least a few years into his career. and obviously i'm gonna be biased so i think fedorov is a lock, someone had him in the "good shot" category, but roenick ahead of him. i have to disagree, and i'm sure this topic will have alot of fedorov theories, but let's be serious, he has MORE than enough credentials to be a lock.

yes thank you, he was written on the piece of paper i made of players for the thread and forgot to add him. just an error. i edited him in there now. yes absolute lock for sakic

i'm confused..your calling me a loonie?? as for the 3 players you named, especially sundin should get in. he's mr consistency, always leads the leafs in stats, never misses games, got them into the playoffs on his back many times, sure he doesn't have a cup or mvp but that's not neccesarily required. he does however have a gold medal though. roenick has impressive stats and to go along with it is known as one of the best american born players ever so that has to mean something. selanne is a pure goal scorer, his 76 goal season, multiple 50 goal seasons if i remember correctly. one the cup with anaheim last season. these 3 players and the players i mentioned aren't just regular all stars, they ARE head and shoulders above 98% of others throughout their career so i think if only 2% of players make it into the H.O.F. it's not too much.

i think falling in the "good shot" category is good enough but you make good points, i guess i could see him being a lock. i was hoping to see more lists, rather than just commenting on mine (or both). you guys can have it totally different, doesn't bother me.

i think you will come across many people on this site that disagree. he's on the fence to me.

well there's nothing wrong with having an outside shot, that's a pretty good career even at that if you don't get in. i'm not all that sold on kolzig's chances, hense why i put him in that category.

i think what your saying is the joke. your faulting a guy for being excited at all time's playing the game he loves. he wants to win more than anyone. his celebrating a teammates goal like he does is refreshing and lifts the team. if half the players in the nhl were as excited as he was, we'd be better off. AND every goal for the capitals is an important goal so he should jump around like it was a stanley cup goal, they are desperately trying to get in the playoffs and he's leading the way. he should be mvp no matter what the capitals end up doing by end of the season. he is a laid back guy, you need to watch more of his interviews, he jokes around, he's funny, he's kinda funny looking and simply loves hockey and it shows in his everyday attitude. he's a character and the star of the league with crosby, we should be exploiting him if we wanna make the game more popular because he's interesting. watching a crosby interview makes me wanna sleep even though he's a fav of mine. it feels like crosby is a robot and saying what he is programed to say to make no mistakes. i'd rather see ovechkin goofing around. or more roenick, who is the best ambassador for the game yet he's out of the spotlight. i thought the ovechcam was cool to some degree. i have center ice, so on one channel it was the game and another channel was the ovechcam. i switched back a forth, it was cool to see him sitting on the bench spitting like a madman and see his reaction to every play. i just didn't like how his side of the screen was huge and the game was not, how can you watch the game like that. it should have been equal size or the game bigger with the ovechcam as a pip display. to whoever said they stopped watching the game cause of it..ya know you could have just watched the other channel that had just the game. but yeah if they do the ovechcam or even on crosby maybe, they need to change the picture size, and add a mic. then it would be an amazing feature.

I can't do just 5 1. Sergei Fedorov (duh) 2. Pavel Bure 3. Alexander Mogilny 4. Mike Modano 5. Marian Gaborik 6. Brendan Shanahan 7. Slava Kozlov 8. Alexei Kovalev 9. Peter Bondra 10. Teemu Selanne

he's not saying team pts wise, he's saying a player will have 100 pts

players seem to have a general lack of respect for other players on ice these days. sticks being flung anywhere they please, cheap shots, boarding is getting pretty bad causing concussions, verbal abuse on and on. from players like tootoo, simon, downie, etc it's getting pretty bad. the days of being a man and challenging the guy to a fight to stick up for a teammate or get your team momentum is fading. sure there is still fighting here and there but it seems like they go over and cross check them in the face, eblow them to the head or sucker them from behind first. some players are only on an nhl team because they are goons not cause of their skill and i say they need to go. i mean stepping on a jarkko ruutu's skate like simon did, downie doing the superman hit to donovan and tootoo pretty much every game is terrible for hockey. just last night for example andre roy of the lighting was threatening riley cote of the flyers of his life. he literally was shaking cause he wanted to kill cote and was shown saying "you're a dead man, i'm going to kill you" and doing the throat swipe. i see it as a big problem and an issue that can't be resolved just by suspending them for 2 games at a time. it's a joke. there's no place in sports let alone in general where throat swiping should be ok. it's terrible to think young kids are seeing a player do this kinda stuff and a terrible example for the youth of hockey. i'm all for hitting and fighting but the cheap stuff and lack of respect is hurting our game.

[quote name='eva unit zero' date=March 7, 2008 - 11:32PM' post='1275626] Since we started ranking goaltenders: Brodeur Leclaire Luongo Osgood Bryzgalov Thomas Giguere Vokoun Miller Biron Huet Garon Backstrom Legace Turco Nabokov Hasek i'm really surprised to see nabokov that low on your list, i think that's the lowest he's been on any list by far. and no toskala either. dammit the quoting didn't work right