DenJ91
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Posts posted by DenJ91
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omg, eva unit zero and gordiesid&ted are still arguing, wow i haven't missed anything! haha
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hey everyone i'm back!! been a while since i've been on this forum. hello to my friends again
now, do you really need me to chime in on this? i don't think so, i've been there done that, but i might just get tempted too. haha. it's probably the 100th time this topic has been started and i'm guilty of creating one last season.
OF COURSE, feds should have his # retired, and if you can't figure out why you have problems. you gotta leave the departure thing aside and simply go by what he's done and only a couple have done more in the history of this great hockey team.
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Sergei FedorovSergei Fedorov
Sergei Fedorov
Sergei Fedorov
Sergei Fedorov
without him all other options are moot
i was gonna do the same thing!! although i have to admit him being on the capitals has been great for him, so i wouldn't mind seeing him sign in washington. i'm going to the game saturday in DC, can't wait!
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Kari Lehtonen has been a disappointment.He was hyped to be ten times better than any other Finnish goalie.
And I've yet to see that in the NHL (he showed that in here though).
He's had too many injuries & playing behind crappy Atlanta defense hasn't helped - I'll give him that.
yeah, i think that has more to do with his s***ty thrasher team. i mean the guy stands on his head some nights and doesn't get the win to show for it cause he team doesn't score or gives up 40 shots and lehtonen just can't keep them all out. he's also had some injuries. i like him and i think he's such an underrated goalie, i wish he were on another team. he was really unhappy with his teammates the other night in the capitals comeback, maybe he'll ask to be traded in the offseason.
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In 1992, the Philadelphia Flyers drafted a kid by the name of Ryan Sittler, 7th overall. If the last name is familiar, he is indeed the son of former NHL forward, and HOF'er Darryl Sittler. In this case, the proverb "like father, like son" does not apply, as Ryan Sittler never played in a single NHL game. While there have been players taken high up in the 1st round that never go on to play a single NHL game (Michael Henrich, Teemu Riihijarvi, Matt Zultek, Scott Kelman, Artem Kryukov, among others that can be included in this thread, as they were all disappointments), Ryan Sittler was a top 10 pick in that draft. More often than not, a player taken that high up will at least play in one game in the NHL; in this case, he did not.There are many others, such as the names I mentioned above, but it would take a while to go through them all. Basically, the players that I consider a disappointment are usually guys taken high up in the 1st round that never become the star players that they were expected to become. If they do shell out solid NHL careers as a checking line forward, then that's ok, but it's usually the guys that come out of juniors like the next Gretzky, but then flounder and leave the NHL after only 2-3 seasons that are considered disappointments.
One last thing, to the person who started this topic: why do you consider Eric Daze a disappointment? While he did have to retire early because of back pain, he still scored over 200 goals (226 exact), and almost hit 400 points (398 exact), in 601 games. He wasn't very physical, but could still score goals, and had his back not gone out like it did, he'd probably be still playing.
i hear ya, just think what daze would have accomplished by now if he was still playing. he'd have over 400 goals right? pretty safe to say. i guess it's more on the "its a shame" side of things that he could play out his career.
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Linden only fell into the 'disappointment' category because he wasn't one of the six best forwards in th edraft that year, but went in the top ten at second overall. It's not so much that he was a disappointment, but that his draft year was very deep in terms of top level forwards. It's the only year I listed with six 1000-point scorers.The thing is, I laid down the criteria before I made up the lists, so that I wouldn't be looking at it and saying 'I think this guy was a disappointment, what criteria fit that argument?'
I tried to set a reasonable standard...a player taken in the top ten is expected to be one of the best at his position in the draft. I allowed for a player to be 'top two' for any of the six positions on the ice, hence 6 forwards, 4 defensemen, and 2 goalies. Linden and Gelinas, while solid players, were taken in the top 10 and didn't fall into that category.
The key to landing in the 'disappointment' category on that list is not so much being a bad player, but not being among the top players at your position despite a draft position that indicates you should be. Because generally, that's how players end up labeled as disappointments.
gotcha, i see what what your saying.
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Go to the official Detroit Red Wings website and select Multimedia/Publications/Media Guide to download a .pdf of this year's media guide. That should contain the information you want. Team and individual records start on page 204.WOW, that is the coolest thing ever, it's exactly what i was looking for. it shows as page 120 or so for those kind of stats but could just be showing two pages on the same in this view. i could look at this for weeks and not read it all, that's impressive to put that out every year. thanks icer!!
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Fedorov is 4th, not 5th.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Red_W...scoring_leaders
well yes, i think i was jumping ahead becase ultimately fedorov will most likely remain 5th all time cause lidstrom will pass him early next season.
oh and that doesn't need discussion, save that for another thread, i suppose datsyuk or zetterberg have a chance at scoring 954 pts as a red wing but i don't see it. create a thread for that though, i'm just looking for a good website. haha
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gordieside and toby91, you're bringing crosby up again, booooo. haha. even though you're tearing him apart again, imisssergei knows he's been owned, we've dropped it. back to the topic. lol
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For all the top disappointments in recent history...let's take a look at the top ten draft picks each year from 1985 to 1992 for now, as almost all of the best players drafted after 1992 are yet to complete their careers and the rankings of such draft classes could be inaccurate and lead to falsely identified disappointments. We'll say that any player taken top ten who wasn't among the top six forwards, four defensemen, or two goaltenders from his draft class are major disappointments. So listed, by draft year, are the top 6/4/2 and the disappointments.1985
Top Forwards: Joe Nieuwendyk, Wendel Clark, Craig Simpson, Ulf Dahlen, Derek King, Nelson Emerson
Top Defensemen: Calle Johansson, Steve Chiasson, Fredrik Olausson, Dave Manson
Top Goalies: Mike Richter, Bill Ranford
Top-10 Disappointments: Craig Wolanin, Jim Sandlak, Dana Murzyn, Brad Dalgarno, Brent Fedyk, Craig Duncanson, Dan Gratton
1986
Top Forwards: Vincent Damphousse, Craig Janney, Scott Young, Adam Graves, Jimmy Carson, Joe Murphy
Top Defensemen: Brian Leetch, Teppo Numminen, Zarley Zalapski, Jyrki Lumme
Top Goalies: Ron Tugnutt, Tim Cheveldae
Top-10 Disappointments: Neil Brady, Shawn Anderson, Dan Woodley, Pat Elynuik, Jocelyn Lemieux
1987
Top Forwards: Joe Sakic, Brendan Shanahan, Pierre Turgeon, Theoren Fleury, John Leclair, Andrew Cassels
Top Defensemen: Mathieu Schneider, Glen Wesley, Bryan Marchment, Luke Richardson
Top Goalies: Guy Hebert, Jeff Hackett
Top-10 Disappointments: Wayne McBean, Chris Joseph, Dave Archibald, Jimmy Waite, Bryan Fogarty, Jayson More
1988
Top Forwards: Mark Recchi, Teemu Selanne, Jeremy Roenick, Rod Brind'Amour, Mike Modano, Alexander Mogilny
Top Defensemen: Rob Blake, Bret Hedican, Keith Carney, Curtis Leschyshyn
Top Goalies: Wade Flaherty, Stephane Fiset
Top-10 Disappointments: Trevor Linden, Darrin Shannon, Daniel Dore, Scott Pearson, Martin Gelinas
1989
Top Forwards: Sergei Fedorov, Mats Sundin, Pavel Bure, Bill Guerin, Bobby Holik, Robert Reichel
Top Defensemen: Nicklas Lidstrom, Vladimir Konstantinov, Adam Foote, Vladimir Malakhov
Top Goalies: Olaf Kolzig, Byron Dafoe
Top-10 Disappointments: Dave Chyzowski, Scott Thornton, Stu Barnes, Adam Bennett, Doug Zmolek, Jason Herter, Jason Marshall
1990
Top Forwards: Jaromir Jagr, Doug Weight, Keith Tkachuk, Peter Bondra, Owen Nolan, Slava Kozlov
Top Defensemen: Sergei Zubov, Darryl Sydor, Derian Hatcher, Jason York
Top Goalies: Martin Brodeur, Felix Potvin
Top-10 Disappointments: Petr Nedved, Keith Primeau, Mike Ricci, Scott Scissons, John Slaney, Drake Berehowsky
1991
Top Forwards: Peter Forsberg, Eric Lindros, Alexei Kovalev, Markus Naslund, Ray Whitney, Zigmund Palffy
Top Defensemen: Scott Niedermayer, Alexei Zhitnik, Philippe Boucher, Richard Matvichuk
Top Goalies: Chris Osgood, Steve Shields
Top-10 Disappointments: Pat Falloon, Scott Lachance, Aaron Ward, Alek Stojanov, Patrick Poulin, Martin Lapointe
1992
Top Forwards: Alexei Yashin, Martin Straka, Cory Stillman, Jere Lehtinen, Michael Peca, Anson Carter
Top Defensemen: Roman Hamrlik, Sergei Gonchar, Mattias Norstrom, Adrian Aucoin
Top Goalies: Nikolai Khabibulin, Jim Carey
Top-10 Disappointments: Mike Rathje, Todd Warriner, Darius Kasparaitis, Ryan Sittler, Brandon Convery, Robert Petrovicky, Andrei Nazarov
Comments:
The top ten sure didn't seem to be a sure thing in the years sampled...although forwards from 87-91 could have been very good and still come out as a disappointment by this metric - Linden, Nedved, and Primeau all would have made the 'top 6' in 1985, 86, or 92's draft class, and many others, but are labeled as disappointments because they didn't in their own year. Also oddly, in the years sampled...Jimmy Waite was the only goaltender taken in the top 10.
wow, nice post eva. that's dedication! do you really feel players like trevor linden, martin gelinas, stu barnes, nedved, keith primeau, mike ricci are disappointments? i think all of them played well or had a certain role like ricci throughout their careers. linden was an iron man, gelinas has a couple cup rings and nedved was a good player although streaky.
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YashinCould guys like Straka, Allison and Deadmarsh count? i.e. disappeared due to injuries...
oh, and how 'bout Brad Stuart
i personally don't consider any of these players disappointments. all of them have had successful careers. straka is playing for the rangers now of course and has put up some good numbers there recently. yashin was an elite player for many years, he left for russia because he wanted more money.
to quackquack, yes chistov is a disappointment in my opinion. had lots of promise, never quite lived up to anything. obviously if he could get more money in russia, that means that teams didn't have interest in him to play here. i liked him, but he could have done/been alot more in the nhl.
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since this is my thread i compiled the list of players named collectively by everyone thus far so those of you still reading the thread or reading for the first time can skip over the lunacy in pages 3-5.
eric daze
brett lindros
keith and brent gretzky
fedor fedorov
alexander daigle
jim carrey
boyd devereaux
petr klima
patrik stefan
igor grigorenko
stan chistov
dan blackburn
radek bonk
chris gratton
viktor kozlov
pat falloon
joe juneau
zac bierk
rico fata
brian lawton
claude boivin
link gaetz
pavel brendl
maxim afinogenov
merely people's opinions, some could be argued of course about being actual disappointments but i agree on about 90% of them.
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Hey, why don't a few of the "Crosby lovers/haters" in this thread make your own thread up about him and then you can like/love/hate/ him in it till he wins a cup or two. I was hoping this thread would be about picks or players that received a lot of hype but never panned out If anyone thinks winning an Art Ross and a Hart is "not panning out" then they should just go hit themselves in the head with a large hammer till they can't feel it anymore.Now back on topic; a couple players that I remember who went fairly high in the draft but never accomplished much in the NHL were Joe Murphy and Pavel Brendl. The Wings took Murphy fairly high in the draft (1st overall, lol) and had really high hopes for him but he didn't work out for them and ended up being shipped off to Edmonton and then Chicago where he had a few moderately successful seasons but never lived up to the "1st Overall" tag. Brendl had an amazing WHL career and was drafted by the Rangers (then dealt to Flyers) fairly high (4th overall) as well. He was a huge disappointment for them after being compared to Pavel Bure and Alex Mogilny while in Junior. He scored 73, 59 and 40 goals in 3 seasons with the Calgary Hitmen so you can see where the scouts might have got the idea he would be an elite scorer in the NHL.
believe me, like i said earlier i didn't start this thread thinking someone would be so dumb as to mention crosby. i've been trying all night to let it die, in fact i'm probably not helping by even mentioning this now. but thanks at least for going back to topic.
NO ONE post anything more about crosby in here starting now., imisssergei can start his/her own thread about the very disappointing crosby. lol ok i mean starting....now!! haha
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Wasnt Maxim Afinogenov suppose to be a 30+ goal scorer. I mean he has had some good season but his talent makes it seem like he should be better.He is not a real disappointment but more was expected of him.
yeah i agree, i don't know what the deal is with maxim. always a let down, shame though he's so exciting to watch. he's still a threat though every time he's on the ice, just don't know why he doesn't score more. i mean i even traded for him in nhl 08 and i can't score with him, he doesn't finish!! lol
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I'd recommend DetroitHockey.netalso thank you, but that doesn't have team records/player stats through history. i'm
basically looking for all time team records by player like goals, assists, points, playoff pts, records, +/-, basically any stat i can think of. for istance if i were to say fedorov is 5th all time on the red wings (something i happened to know) but who is 6th through 10th or something like that.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinions. However, sometimes they are clearly wrong. This is one of those times.
THANK YOU!!!
and yes zombie, let's leave the crosby stupidity behind. back to normal players.
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Ok, so I see your point now. You don't agree with my opinion, hence it's wrong. I get it. Since your opinion is different, my is wrong. The world makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.Hey everyone, Crosby is the second coming of christ, DenJ91 said so.
no need to be a smart ass. aparently i'm the ONLY one telling you you're ridiculous, read back. in fact two more people just chimed in how wrong you are yet i'm the one who's picked out. i'm not discussing this anymore. how crosby and disappointment came up in the same sentence blows my mind.
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The best hockey stat website I always think of is hockeydb.com, but I'm not sure whether that will help you or not when it comes to finding leaders in statistical categories. I guess you'll just have to play around with it to find what you need.thanks i checked it out, but it doesn't seem to have team records or player stats by team.
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So tell me what I should base my opinion of Crosby on? Please, I'd love to hear this.What you are implying is that I am wrong for basing my opinion of Crosby on what he has done, and not what he could do. That is absurd.
It's like still holding out hope for Brendl. I mean, after all, he could come back the NHL and dominate, couldn't he? Everyone knows he is washed up, and playing in Sweden for a reason.
Come on, seriously, give me one good reason why I shouldn't base my opinion of Crosby on what Crosby has done.
And no, what other players have done doesn't mean jack.
YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY OPINION ON CROSBY BEING A DISAPPOINTMENT, THAT'S MY POINT!!!!!! his name should never have been brought up, nobody agrees with you. my god i give up!
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I'll throw Jason Spezza's name into the ring. Its been a few seasons now but he got nearly the same hype as Crosby did. He made the World Junior team at age 15 and dominated the "O".Considering the ice time, linemates and team that hes played for, he really hasn't lived up to expectations. Im not saying hes not one of the top ten centers in the league but certainly not living up to the "Ron Francis" comparisons.
OMG i'm starting to regret making this topic, what is wrong with some people!!! SPEZZA??? geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus
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I said nothing like that. Show me once where I said Crosby didn't live up to the hype because he didn't win the Cup his first year.It's ok, I'll wait.....
Back to reality, what I said was this, Crosby is a disappointment because he didn't get his team out of the first round. In addition, the Pens didn't even compete with the Sens.
Again, the Pens were a playoff team without Crosby, so having Crosby on the team didn't take the team any further.
you didn't say the cup, and i even said you didn't say that, read my post. but you did say he's a disappointment based on just one season of him being in the playoffs and not getting out of the first round. that's honestly one of the dumbest things i've ever read, and you're alone here. others who have responded even agree that is an absurd thing to say. you do realize that like gordiesid said even yzerman and so many other legends didn't get their teams out of the first round let alone into the playoffs their first few seasons. AND the sens ended up making it to the cup finals, they were the team to beat, not the pens last year. so i'm moving on from this, it's so dumb it's hurting my head. i'll look forward to you saying better things in another thread. not trying to be disrespectful honest, this is a forum afterall. i don't like arguing with a fellow fedorov fan, it's just not right.
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Pretty cool topic although the Crosby-discussion is ruining it a tad.I'm reluctant to bring my own opinion into it but Crosby can't really be compared with guys like Daigle or Brendl (although Brendl is having a half-decent thing going for him in Sweden). Although I hate Crosby - can't tell you why though, I'd love to say it's because he's a Penguin or Canadian or is this or that. I can't explain it - something about him rubs me the wrong way. But I'd never call him a bust. And now I've gone and done and made things worse. I should just shut up about Crosby.Please ignore the crossed over text.haha funny how you crossbed most of it out focusing on the crosby part. i agree, when with ya. when i created the topic, i never in a million years would have thought someone would post crosby as a disappointment. it's insane. so hopefully it gets back to regular players who make sense. glad you liked the idea of the topic though.
pavel brendl is def one!! dude scored mad amounts of goals before being drafted.
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what are some good websites that list basically every stat/records about any hockey team? i say any, not just the wings because i'm always interested in knowing a teams history and record holders etc. i'm looking for some info about red wings stat history, like all team leaders in random categories. if i remember correctly, detroitredwings.com doesn't have all that much info. google doesn't give me the best results or websites either so if any of you have come across one or some, that'd be great. thanks in advance!
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Again, no disrespect intended (even though your reply comment held some venom).Lids and AO are two, right off the top of my head that are better players.
Not saying Sid isn't a great player...just not in the top two.
wow..how bout them apples (sorry to ruin your media-hype-Penguins-homer fantasy). Enjoy the rage that comes when your wrong and realize it.
haha, first i never said you WERE an idiot, i said "it's like asking to be called an idiot". i think you'll be basically alone on the entire forum to say crosby is not top 2. to say lidstrom is better is being a blatent homer. and since when is philly home for pittsburgh?? you realize they are 6 1/2 hours apart right? at least i think that's what you trying to say when you called me a penguins-homer. anywho, i'm a red wings fan first and foremost, and i love lidstrom, but he is not top 2, questionably top 4 to me. it's hard to debate because it's a who is better overall topic and if i really took the time to break down each of the top 5 players in my mind i'd have a better result for you.
oh and i'm not wrong, i'm never wrong. how long is it gonna take for people around here to realize that. haha nah i'm kidding!! i've actually admitted to having my opinions swayed here and there.
and gordiesid&ted, we are def on the same page today!! where were you in the ovechkin thread when i needed ya!! lol
11/20 GDT: Panthers 2 at Red Wings 1 (OT)
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so osgood is starting? post names him as projected starter than right below in the injury update it says he will not because of the flu.