Datsyerberger

Okay, for Shaman, here's a list of 2nd line centers that are UFA at the end of this year: Handzus Arnott And possibly available for trade: S. Koivu (NTC, price tag: $2.5m for 1 yr) -- At this point, Flip is superior, and Koivu may not waive NTC Langkow ($4.5m for 1 yr) -- No comment Jokinen ($3m for 1 yr) -- Why would we do this? Horcoff (way too much for way too long) -- why? Stoll (3.6m for 1 yr) Gomez -- lol Drury -- extra lol McDonald -- 4.7 for 2 So... who do we get instead of Flip.. and why?

Well, so far the pattern is that he's tied for 48th in PPG among centers, 56th in GPG among centers, and his +/- (lol) is also amongst the top 60 for centers. Or how about an overlooked stat: his takeaways are 22nd among centers. He's 43rd in faceoffs taken (right below Datsyuk) with a success rate above 50%. 67th for shots among centers but 32nd in shooting %. 90th among centers, but first among Detroit centers for shots blocked. Tied 6th for game winning goals among centers. 41st in TOI for centers. Also notable that despite his offensive numbers, he's only 69th in PPTOI/G--in other words, he eats up a ton of even strength minutes, allowing our high end talent and specialists to play more special teams minutes (he's 40th in ESTOI/G among centers). He produces with that time; in fact, he's tied 32nd for ES points for centers. Summary: His production is on par with 2nd line centers His time on ice is on par with 2nd line centers, with a preference towards even strength His even strength production is above average for 2nd line centers His defensive play is above average for 2nd line centers He's played like a 2nd line center, he plays like a 2nd line center, and he's paid like a 2nd line center ...So basically, what point are you trying to make? That he's not a 2nd line center? And if so, from where are you drawing those conclusions? Some warped reality inside your head wherein players aren't 2nd line players based solely upon your judgement instead of those made by NHL professionals such as Ken Holland and Mike Babcock?

Being close enough to Denver, my dad and I are heavily considering attending this game. However, most of the seats available for purchase at the present time (within our price range) are upper bowl seats, mostly near the red lines (though for a slight price bump more towards center ice). For our Denver-area Wings fans (or Avs fans that reside here), what's the seating situation like in regards to the upper bowl of the Pepsi Center? Is the view unobstructed and at a good angle? Additionally, is there any particular section in which budgeted Wings fans typically congregate? Thanks

Why would we do that when we already have one locked up for 2 more years? I'd prefer to spend on a solid #3-#5 d-man (depending on how guys play this season), even if Lids is back. Pretty certain: Kronwall Stuart Ericsson Rafalski Kindl Maybe: Lidstrom Smith I'd feel much more comfortable with a guy who's capable of being a respectable mid pair or good bottom pair guy in that group, even if Lidstrom is back. Center is one of the last things I'm worried about for a FA pickup with this org's depth at the position and with our current guys. Consider how our cup year looked on the back end. We essentially had a #1, 3 guys who could be a great #2 or #3 in Raffi, Kronwall, and Stuart, 2 solid bottom pair guys in Cheli and Lilja, and usable filler in Lebda (and Meech, if a call up was necessary). I'd like to load up on D if the opportunity is there.

Well, what with Modano and likely Draper gone next year, is this the point where we see both Abdelkader and Helm as full-time centers? Babs has little reason to break up Datsyuk and Zetterberg except in special situations, as Flip has been proving himself to be a more than adequate 2nd line center. Does that make our center line up D/Z, Flip, Abdelkader, Helm? I'd suspect the lines to start off looking something like: ZDH/C BFF Hudler? - Abdelkader - Cleary Mursak - Helm - Eaves Miller With a lot of possible rotation on those bottom 2 lines. There's some scary possible combos, such as Mursak - Helm - Eaves, Mursak - Abdelkader - Cleary, etc. I'd like to see Hudler keep doing well, of course, and hope he does well enough to stay, but even without him those lines could be sick. Both the situation at center and the overall look at the bottom 6 looks really interesting next year; I honestly can't think of a combination of players in the bottom 6 that wouldn't have a potential to look reeeeally good (as long as Hudler keeps up his recent work).

Not yet.. but damn, am I looking forward to him in a few years. The Wings actually look like they could be ridiculously deep, say, 5 years from now: Possibly still here: Zetterberg: 35 Datsyuk: 37 Franzen: 35/36 Cleary: 36/37 Hudler: 31/32 Filppula: 31/32 Abdelkader: 28/29 Helm: 28/29 Eaves: 31 Miller: 31/32 And possible top-9+ graduations, just from current prospects: Tatar: 25 Mursak: 27/28 Pulkkinen: 23/24 Andersson: 26/27 Emmerton: 27 Jarnkrok: 24 Sheahan: 23/24 Nyquist: 25/26 And that's not even counting some of the more longshot but interesting guys we have as grinder possibilities Doesn't that look rather similar to the age range of our present group of forwards? Damn, it's good to be a Wings fan.

Lmao, the joke at the end of the last one is such an obvious one, but it's funny anyhow.

Re: Selkie's post Again, I think 'fans', particularly 'expert fans', see things with waaaaaay different standards than people in the biz. Osgood got bombarded by fellow hockey personalities. 400 wins may not be very HHOF or retirement worthy to you, but I once again maintain it's a huge milestone for people actually involved in the NHL level of the sport and will most likely result in HHOF and quite possibly number retirement. There's a distinct difference between "Should Osgood be in the HHOF by your standards?" and "Is Osgood HHOF worthy?" -- the latter is what's judged by people in the business of pro hockey. My opinion? I don't know if Ozzie "should" be in the HHOF because honestly, there's absolutely no standard set for modern goaltenders. Fuhr, Smith, and Roy are the most recent goaltenders; in regards to the former two, they were the standard of a different era, and in regards to the latter, a top 3 all time player at a position does not set a standard. The same can be said for 2 other locks, Hasek and Brodeur. The next tier, Belfour, Joseph, Vernon, Osgood--these are the names that will set the bar for what's considered "HHOF-worthy" for a modern goaltender. I have no modern comparison for "should" until I see what happens with these guys, and thus, I will make no judgements on "should"... only predictions on what the HHOF will do in regards to perceived standards. However, I will say this: If 400 regular season wins, 74 playoff wins, and 15 playoff shutouts--all marks held by 10 or less other goaltenders in the history of the NHL--in addition to 3 cups (2 as a starter), respectable (even if not spectacular) sustained SV% and GAA (and upper echelon for said stats in the playoffs), and the ability to keep a job in one of the hardest positions in pro team sports for 17 seasons (13 of those as a starter that plays ~60 minutes a night for the majority of games in an 82 game season) is not enough to be a Hall of Fame standard, then the standards are too strict on netminders. I don't care how many of those numbers are a "team stat" or how good his team was--you don't get kept around as a player for 14 years (10 years as a key player) on the most successful hockey team for 2 decades unless you're pretty damned good yourself. Success keeps the company of success... and I offer the same argument for other 'debated' names such as Dryden and Fuhr.

It was his first NHL goal, and he was reppin' the logo on the front throughout his celebration. No complaints here. Nice to have a guy with emotion but who also seems team first. On that note, I really like how Tatar was generating his chances and offense this last game... forechecking hard and going to the front of the net every chance he got. Bold for his size.

What on God's Green Earth possessed Tavares to try to blow through Lidstrom and Stuart as a pairing? It's like hi, meet a 6x Norris winner and his hard checking partner. Seriously though, that looked like a good way to get injured.

A shame such a thrilling game is going to the Snoreout.

Jarnkrok playing very well, it's making me quite hot. Seriously though, this is gonna be a Charlie Foxtrot if it goes to overtime.

This one's shaping up to be a real thriller. The Swede really picked his corner on that last goal, but I'll bet Canada's goalie would like it back.

Hm, I hand't considered Emmerton, though I do know he's having a solid year in the AHL this year (finally!)... is this his last year of waiver ineligibility?

Doritos if you're going to be in the presence of (non-household) company; cheetos are messy. Otherwise, cheetos for sure. Got some brew from a local brewery I enjoy, deciding which to have first: IPA or Holiday Ale (a flavorful, high alcohol stout)

Where's your spirit of long-term speculation? Seriously, there's not a lot else to talk about right now.

You know, I've debated this one internally for a while and finally decided on a way to answer it: "If Ozzie's number was raised to the rafters, would the Ozzie chant in the Joe be thunderous?" The answer to that question is my answer.

Nah, Jiri Hudler hat-trick is a goal, an assist, and a cluck.

Well, ultimately, if a player is credited with a GWG, it means they broke a tie in the game. Whether it was a goal in OT or the first goal past a time in a blowout, said player is ultimately the one who broke the stalemate that resulted in the final score. While it's certainly a 'just for fun' stat to some extent, I think if a player has a relatively high # of GWGs as compared to their goalscoring pace, it can say something about them.

Okay, while I'd like Ozzie to get #400 at home, I'd laugh my ass off if it happened in Denver.

No, not unless it's for an obvious overpayment. He's good enough to center a second line, allowing us to pair up Dats and Z at a whim, but likewise defensive enough he can be moved down a line if Babs wants to split them. He skates well and can put in a reasonable effort in all situations. And though his goalscoring isn't prolific (I'd give him 20 goals on a healthy prime year), the goals he does score tend to be very timely. He's rarely adding in a goal on an already established lead; his goals always seem to come when the Wings are down and need some, or to open the Wings scoring. You simply don't trade a player like Flip (especially at his price tag) unless something better comes along for a similar price, and that quite frankly doesn't happen very often.

What's funny is they've both been doing well individually (save Rafalski's last game), both chipping in on a lot of plays with good puck movement. Not thrilled with them as a pair, though.

Has Quincey not had shoulder issues in the past? I hope surgery and recuperation sorts it out for him permanently.

You know, the Wings actually played a pretty good game today. They got their fair share of chances, finished decently.. I mean, sure, Helm missed an open net, but we know he has hands of stone anyhow, and the play was started solely by him... it shifted momentum as a bonus. Ozzie played a good game. Overall, the Wings looked fairly good. However, I would particularly like to thank Rafalski for singlehandedly costing Ozzie career win #400 by a stupid giveaway, a penalty in overtime (wtf are you doing with your stick that close to the legs of one of the biggest divers in the league?) and poor timing on joining the rush in OT. Thanks, Raffi.

I remember hearing this before in regards to a Det-Phi matchup.. I wonder what year that was...