Datsyerberger

I agree here, again, as I point out a handful of posts above, the average football hit is going to be more solid and happen more frequently than open ice hockey hits. The numbers and tool above are useful for comparing best case scenario hits, however. It's mostly to counter the arguments that the hardest (reasonably clean) hockey hits aren't as hard as the hardest (reasonably clean) football hits based on 'but football players are much larger!'. That's simply a poor understanding of the physics involved. One thing worth noting is if you watch a highlight reel of the hardest 'clean' hits in the NHL vs hardest 'clean' hits in the NFL, a lot more of the NFL guys get up and walk away from it. NHL guys subjected to a solid open ice hit usually have their day (week/month/season) wrecked.

Here's a fun little tool to add to this that'll help those of you who are uncertain on physics to see calculations of hits. http://www.exploratorium.edu/hockey/checking2.html If you want to set up an example comparison, you can use Lindros (230 lbs) moving 17mph hitting Tkachuk (220 lbs) moving 14mph to simulate a very high speed football hit. Then, to take into account average weight differential, you can use Leetch (190 lbs) moving 19mph hitting Sakic (185 lbs) moving 16mph to simulate an average speed open ice hockey hit. The 230 vs 190 and 220 vs 185 is roughly the same percentile difference as the weight of an average NFL player compared to an average NHL player (~250 average for NFL player vs ~205 for NHL player). To add some numbers used elsewhere (you can easily calculate this on your own with any number of online calculators), a 200lb hockey player moving 24mph has as much force as a 350lb football player moving 18mph. Again, just another example to put in perspective how much more important speed is in a calcultion of force than mass.

As an example, again, simple physics, you're never going to see a hit this hard as a calculation of force in football: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u18CBH2s7-4 On the other hand, these 'softer' but still quite violent hits are common in football: And unfortunately, these are a problem in football: Then again, you have incidents like the Cooke on Savard hit in hockey. However, the helmet hits happen more often than those, and those helmets are also extremely dangerous when used as a weapon.

As a matter of simple physics, hockey hits are undoubtedly harder than football hits. This has been studied numerous times as well. There's an unspoken factor here, however, that's lead to football hits being more dangerous and increased neurological damage to football players: using the helmet as a weapon. This has become a rather serious problem in the last handful of years, and is part of why the NFL is starting to crack down this year. This is why despite hockey hits being harder (as a measurement of force), football hits have recently been more dangerous on average. Edit: There's also the problem of open ice/field hits being more common in football than hockey. This repetitive trauma has a considerable effect as well. Sure, when you throw in hits along the boards, hockey hits happen close to as often, but hits along the boards are significantly different. They can both be more dangerous in the case of an illegal/violent hit, but also less damaging on a legal/safe hit, as the boards can absorb some of the impact.

I already said running-oriented positions (such as RBs) tend to improve. Good job. Johnson was also a track star, by the way. He posted a 4.24 40 before being drafted (before pro level training) and considering he was already running a 10.50 100 in high school I doubt 4.24 was out of his reach then, especially considering 40% of 10.50 is 4.2

It's really the case. Many guys remain stable or even lose speed as they bulk up and shift their game for the pro level, as many run track and keep in leaner shape during highschool. The only guys that significantly increase are running-oriented positions. College is probably the fastest level of football because of this, and imo that's what makes it the most fun to watch.

That line of thinking would assume that hockey players' speed doesn't improve as well. I already examined the scientific effects earlier in the thread. However... In football, the average speed from the high school level to pro level doesn't really go anywhere. It even falls for some positions/players, as many football players were track athletes in high school as well, and are more speed specialized. As they bulk up and train for different positions in the college/pro level, they tend to trade a little speed for power and upper body strength. The only ones that tend to keep or improve speed are the ones that play speed specialized positions, which tend not to be the ones doing the hitting. What upper end defensive football players at the pro level do have is a lot more explosiveness. They're not going to catch a back that goes taking off, but they can go from a dead standstill to a full run in an instant, great for lateral movement. Hockey players, on the other hand, tend to significantly improve speed at all positions through the pro level at a greater rate. Improved speed/skating tends to be one of the hardest pushed things for improvement at all levels of play (however, like in football, some players edge towards explosiveness more than speed).

Wow, usually a guy necros for a reason. This is just like a random and really old necro.

It's funny to see how much people ***** about being over-regulated in terms of physical play in regards to other major North American sports when not only does the NHL have the hardest (perhaps not average, but certainly max potential) hits of all of them, but also is the only one that minimally penalizes fighting to a point where it can be a daily occurrence.

Not with the worst record in the division they aren't.

Save Boston, northeast is this year's competition of "who sucks the least?" I'm going with that. Southeast is much better this year. Oh, and so far.. Southeast: 42 pts in 37 gp Atlantic: 42 pts in 41 gp Northeast: 40 pts in 38 gp And on top of that, SE only has 2 OT loss, compared to 4 in NE and 6 in Atlantic. Wins come out to.. SE: 20 wins in 37 gp Atlantic: 18 wins in 41 gp NE: 18 wins in 38 gp I think too many people assume awfulness when it comes to the SE.

If Biznasty actually fought in an All Star game that would hands down be the best ASG ever.

In the end, this is sort of like asking if you would rather someone: 1. hit you a couple times a minute with a sledgehammer over the course of 10 minutes (typical football hits), or 2. continuously strike you with a roofer's hammer (normal sustained hockey hits, along the boards etc), and also drop an anvil on you once (lesser occuring open ice hockey hit) over the course of the same 10 minutes. Either way, it's going to suck and do a lot of damage.

Miller's played well enough not to be pissed at him, but beyond that, hasn't really generated much of anything, either. He's just sort of soaking ice time... which isn't really a bad thing, it's just not a good thing either. Abdelkader has the potential to do more with the same ice time, and though Miller is a good PKer, we've got plenty of those in the lineup right now.

I love the pronunciation of Tkachuk. Ka-CHEEEWK! Sounds like a sneeze

Sure, football players are considerably larger, but to understand force you've gotta know how to calculate it. I'm not going to go into that here, but in short, the greater speed is going to do more than the greater weight. Since we're assuming hard hits here, we're going to assume open ice hits in hockey vs dead on hits in football. We're also going to assume that both hits have solid, direct contact. A 215 lb hockey player hitting another hockey player at 23 mph hits with just over 10,000 newtons of force. A 260 lb football player hitting another football player at 18 mph (18 mph is a rather fast speed for a 260 lb football player) hits with about 7,500 newtons. Keep in mind that these speed numbers are being very generous to the football player. The difference in speed from the average open ice hockey hit compared to a football hit is greater than 5 mph. I've seen material suggesting that the average hockey hit is 1.5 to 2 times as hard as the average football hit. That's not to say football players are weak, either, because 7500 newtons... well, imaging having a 1700 lb draft horse lying on you. Ouch.

Smith wasn't penalized, so I'm going to assume that the (obviously Nylander-biased) Swedish article is embellishing about "charge from behind" until I either see video evidence or an official punishment from the AHL.

Wonder if Selanne and/or Carlyle (more Selanne) will get a fine for those comments. Justified or no, the NHL typically does not like players saying that much about the officiating/product.

I've watched the replay several times already and stand by my arguments. You know my thoughts. Now I need sleep, badly. Been up well over 24 hours, stupid Wings game delaying my getting to sleep.

The only way he gets into full butterfly in time for that shot is if he either anticipates it and risks getting burned, or channels the reflexes of Hasek (in which case he probably does a barrel roll to stop the shot instead of going butterfly).

Do you understand the difference between a quick shot and a fast shot?

A different (and implicitly lesser) player is both less likely to generate that scoring chance and to release a shot as quickly and accurately as Selanne. The shot doesn't have to be a hard shot in that instance. Accuracy and release are much more important, and Selanne has a deceptively quick release.

If Howard is in butterfly that early, he gets burned bad and that play turns into a highlight reel goal (or, more optimistically, a highlight reel save).

It was a breakaway by virtue of positioning. Kronwall made it back enough to cut off a potential pass through the slot as assignment would dictate, but Selanne still had more than ample room (especially considering Kronwall isn't the strongest front-of-net d-man if Selanne decides to cut inside).

Picking a spot that well is neither a fluky nor weak goal. The goalie can't commit early because a guy with that much skill and that much space is going to burn the hell out of him if he commits. He presents the smallest possible target (5 hole in this case) and hopes he can close up in time or it's just too small a target. When it's the case of a guy with a laser of a shot like Selanne... well, you don't cough up the puck at the blueline like that to begin with.