Datsyerberger

Hudler is basically a small, extremely talented powerplay specialist that is more serviceable at ES than your usual 3rd line PPer because of his high talent, but also limited because of his small size.

That's really low +/- for how many ES points they have, particularly Malkin Here's the Wings high minute forwards, for comparison: Zetterberg: 13 ES points, 10 +/- Cleary: 16 ES points (lol hi Malkin), 14 +/- Franzen: 13 ES points, 9 +/- Filppula: 11 ES points, 9 +/- Hossa: 7 ES points, 5 +/- Datsyuk: 4 ES points, 4 +/- Do you see anything about the differential in ES points in +/-? Maybe the fact that it's much, much lower than the Wings players? What were you saying about defense, again? Here's a Pens forward that plays defense: Guerin, 13 ES points, 11 +/-. That's a well rounded veteran. But it ain't Crosby or Malkin, that's for sure. Is it really so hard for Pens fans to admit that? Everyone on our bottom lines (and Holmstrom), except Maltby, has 1 or 2 ESGA differnetial... except Draper and Leino, who have 0, and Maltby, who has 3. And Dan Cleary (who gets virtually no PP time and substantially more PK time) is scoring with Malkin at even strength with less even strength minutes.

People elsewe=here get irritated at me when I say that either one of Lebda or Lilja could be a #4 on many other teams, but I firmly believe it. Most of their denial comes from Wings hatred. Meech and Cheli are a bottom pairing on many other teams. Detroit D: Three #1 d-men: (Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall) One #2 d-man: Ericsson One #3 d-man: Stuart Two #4 d-men: Lilja, Lebda Two #5/6 d-men: Cheli, Meech Not a single one of those guys doesn't deserve a bench spot in the NHL, and the Wings are blessed to have an obvious overflow.

I'm calling bulls*** on this one. Val was playing 2nd/3rd line minutes, often with players who weren't producing much, almost no PP time during the regular season. He was -4th- in ES scoring despite not being that high in ES ice time. Several of us were pointing that out and saying he was being underrated because of linemates + lack of PP time, and some of the haters were poo-pooing that away. They were looking at his stats too much and not his play.. and now they're eating crow for it.

And using the same logic, we can assume that the bottom teams in the West are better than the Pens! (Colorado - Penguins: 5-3, Phoenix - Penguins: 4-1)

He also got the score of Game 3 of DET-CHI wrong in his Pens-Wings prediction article. Reeeeal credible. There are people on ******* hfboards that have a better prediction record than Burnside right now (I know of at least one that's called every series right and got the correct number of games for at least 1/3 of them). The sad part is Burnside is as close as ESPN gets to a decent hockey writer.

What annoys me is that because the Wings handed these teams their asses (well, Anaheim not so much), they're going to be criminally underrated for at least part of next season. I honestly think the Hawks are a stronger overall team than the Pens, and I'm almost certain the Ducks are in the playoffs. I don't see the Pens getting past the Nucks like the Hawks did.

Anyone in the east

Eh, Burnside is a chump. He could at least get minor facts straight.. like how it says in the article game 3 vs Chicago was 6-2. The sad part is that's closest to what ESPN has to a decent hockey writer.

I'm not going to go gold mining my own quotes right now (anyone who wishes to can feel free), but I'm pretty sure I'm enough of a nuisance here that various posters here can verify these claims. Claims I have made during the course of the 08-09 season that have got me s*** for most of it. Particularly notable ones (aka those that got me the most flak) bolded: Osgood will be a beast in the playoffs, despite his regular season, because he's one of the best. Cleary's production would be up for the playoffs, like we saw pre-injury last year. Franzen's success would continue and increase (this one not so much, but some posters) Filppula is being massively underrated, and it would show in a massive increase in his production in the playoffs (he's near PPG), and would also show why the Wings org values him over Hudler. Wings would be dominant over their opponents in physical play (they have been) Chelios will see playoff ice time and not be the death of us (he has, and he hasn't. Been pretty good for our #7 guy, all things considered) Lebda will be better in the playoffs (he has been) Fortunately, my list of "wrongs" isn't that big right now. Feel free to dig up some dirt on me if you want to balance things out. Edit: Shoreline, I'm hurt that you didn't include me in the Osgood lovers quotes. Or is it because those 2 page rants I always do doesn't fit?

Actually, they had 3 dominating players going into the finals.. Malkin, Hossa, and Crosby. Malkin's guns didn't really silence until the SCF. They also had a goaltender that was posting a SV% in the realms of .930 as opposed to .906. And this.. has noone else noticed this?

People seem to be forgetting that, before the SCF, Crosby and Malkin were scoring at nearly the same pace last year as they are this year. It's only a little improved on behalf of both, actually (Malkin increased slightly more). Additionally, they both had better +/- going into the SCF last year then they do this year. They really aren't that improved. In fact, they've taken more games to get to the SCF this year than last.. though that's more of an indication of their depth this year, which has -decreased-. Pens are less scary this year, as long as we have our dudes.

Crosby and Malkin are better this year. Staal is worse. Fleury is way worse. The depth of the Pens is worse. The coaching is improved. The D is about the same. Meanwhile, the Wings have added Hossa, Helm, and Ericsson as regulars, Abs, Leino as sometimes, and lost... Drake?

Bring on the Bettsburgh Crosbies!

Where the hell is the all of the above option? Don't make me pick between Helm and Ozzie. That's just cruel

We've all got a bad feeling, yo, Hawks and Wings fans alike. Adrenaline!

I'm feeling something from Hudler. Assist or goal.

Other than O'Halloran, it's been fine. He consistently gets way too involved. It's not just us Detroit fans.. he always seems to consistently hose one team in a series. Stuff like the Watson thing, as irritating as it was, happens. That's hockey officiating. Most of its been pretty good. O'Halloran's just a ****** nozzle to a special degree.

My man-love for the day is now focused on you, NFM. Especially that last paragraph. <3 I hope that doesn't creep you out.

Couldn't find a gif of him doing the old beer can smash.

We might be able to replace him.. but I've a feeling we'll be spending an extra 3-4 million to do so. That cap space sure isn't replaceable, and by proxy, him. Currently, we're hoping for something big out of Howard, Larsson, or McCollum. We'll have them RFA a handful of years, and then if one of them proves himself capable of filling the role full time, we're going to be paying at LEAST 4 million a year given current non RFA contracts (and the final RFA contract will probably be around 2.5/3M, double what Ozzie makes).

I'm actually going to disagree here.. having someone as good as he is in the playoffs for the small size of his salary is a huge blessing. He's making 4+ million less than every other non-RFA goalie capable of the same playoff performance.. saving that much in salary cap is huge and makes him extremely valuable.

Indeed, they're running off two superstars. And I don't really see a two superstar team beating: 1. Top 5 d-man of all time 2. One of the best playoff goalies of all time 3. Pearson/Hart/Selke/Byng Finalist 4. Top playoff goalscorer since the lockout + PK machine 5. Highest GPG player in the last two playoffs 6. 3 time 40+ goal scorer + Selke nominee 7. Almost PPG third line center with excellent defense (Better than Jordan's at ES) 8. Superior depth 9. Superior coaching 10. Superior experience 11. Home ice advantage

I think the Pens are really being overstated right now. They're basically running on Crosby and Malkin, and to a lesser extent, Guerin, Gonchar, Fedotenko, and Kunitz. Every one of those players except Gonchar and maybe Guerin are in large parts benefactors of Crosby and Malkin (though Fedotenko has been clutch). Last year, before the SCF, the Pens were running on: Crosby Malkin Hossa Gonchar Malone Fleury Fleury has looked bad these playoffs except in a few highlight moments. Gonchar is about the same. Hossa is entirely unreplaced in terms of sheer power. Guerin thus counts as a new addition.. definitely not a replacement for Hossa, not a 3rd name we have to worry about directly shutting down. Kunitz has been good, but not as good as Malone was last year. That only leaves Crosby and Malkin performing even better (pre-SCF) than they did last year. They are, by far, the bulk of the Pens offense. Shut them down, and where are the Pens? They haven't yet faced a shutdown team.. they faced two teams they could out-offense and one team that'd been through 2 game 7 series.

Even though they aren't as good of players, Havlat and Khabi are a bigger loss to the Hawks than Dats and Lids are to the Wings. Wings lineup still looks like F - Z - C Homer - Flip - Hossa Abs - Hudler - Sammy Leino - Helm - Maltby Raffi - Ericsson Kronwall - Stuart Cheli - Lebda Ozzie Which is still a better lineup than most teams in the league, imo. Compare that to the Hawks without those two. Ouch.