Datsyerberger

Leino at .950 short term is better off than Ericsson at .9. Hudler's contract was a deal greater than 1 year, which meant a higher cap hit. A 1 year deal for Leino at .950 is pretty reasonable. Kopecky at .6 is also a reasonable estimate, though I am of the personal belief he is worth more. I wouldn't be surprised to see some bottom feeder offer him 1-1.2 mil, to be honest. I doubt we see Abdelkader next year due to the cap situation. If we do, then we don't spend a roster spot (or money) on Downey. Since Downey is a cheaper option to fill a spot than Abdelkader, and there's been nothing out of Babcock or management to suggest they think Abdelkader is NHL ready (which we have heard about Helm, Ericsson, and Leino), I doubt we see him 'til the '10-11 season. Again, I believe Lilja is more likely to be moved than Lebda, due to contract size, redundancy, and higher trade value. And finally, excellent research you did there on the cap situation. "Also, every single GM interviewed has also denied the chance that the cap will go up or down." Stunning statement with excellent sources; I'm a believer now. For the record, most of the GMs interviewed have declined to comment on whether the cap will go up or down, not denied. Couple extra letters there. Edit: I didn't change anything regarding Lilja in the previous post. Furthermore, you'll notice I never included Abdelkader, something which I've already thoroughly explained. I feel no need to include his contract when I don't include him on the NHL roster.

Sorry, your numbers are off, which is why your argument is in vain. Allow me to elaborate on the numbers, since apparently you insist on an in-depth debate without having to do the research yourself: (09-10 season, current contracts of projected roster players only) Datsyuk: 6.700 Zetterberg: 6.083 Filppula: 3.000 Cleary: 2.800 Holmstrom: 2.250 Draper: 1.583 Maltby: 0.883 Helm: 0.598 Lidstrom: 7.450 Rafalski: 6.000 Stuart: 3.750 Kronwall: 3.000 Lilja: 1.250 / Lebda 0.650 Meech: 0.483 Ericsson: 0.900 Osgood: 1.417 Howard: 0.717 Total = 48.264 (Lebda) / 48.864 (Lilja) Roster: ZDH Cleary - Flip - ? ? - Helm - ? Maltby - Draper - ? (Meech) Raffi - Lids Kronwall - Ericsson Stuart - Lebda/Lilja Meech Osgood Howard Now let's fill in the holes. Hossa: 6.100 (More than the similarly skilled future captain) Leino: 0.950 (1-2 year deal) Kopecky: 0.600 (And some people here would ***** about that) Downey: 0.475 Total: 56.989 (Lilja) / 56.389 (Lebda) I prefer the Lebda option, as that frees up money to secure a 22 man roster -- 22nd spot can either be filled by a cheap roleplaying forward, a cheap #6/7 d-man, or rotating prospects. Also, Lilja will trade for better assets than Lebda. ZDH Cleary - Flip - Hossa Leino - Helm - Kopecky Maltby - Draper - Downey (Meech) *(Roleplayer/Rotating prospect) Raffi - Lids Kronwall - Ericsson Stuart - Lebda/Lilja Meech *(Backup d-man/rotating prospect/Chelios) Osgood Howard * = Pick 1, Lebda option only Alternatively, you can work out similar numbers with Franzen taking $4m (notoriously greedy agent) and Sammy taking $2m (large discount for a defensively responsible 50 point player in his prime) instead of Hossa taking 6.1 -- Hudler taking 3-3.5 and Sammy taking 2 is another option as well that leaves a bit more wiggle room, but probably offers the least talent of all the options. Hossa, to me, is unquestionably more attractive than Franzen + Sammy or Hudler + Sammy + Roleplayer. If Franzen + Hudler can be had for a combined 6.1 million, then I take that option over Hossa, but I find that to be the least realistic of all the options available. Anyhow, maybe instead of ignoring posts you should spend the time you used making posts with inaccurate figures to check the numbers instead. That way, you don't waste your time and I don't have to post essentially the same damned thing 3 times. Now that we've overcome the ignorance of the statement that retaining above rosters would be financially impossible, perhaps we should debate over which of the above rosters would be the most effective both short and long term -- which is where the debate is, not the numbers. Final note: There's plenty of evidence that the cap will raise slightly next year; given that 56.7 is the current number, 57 is a reasonable estimate within the realm of "slightly". Edit: It has to do with both high revenues this year (despite the economy, since many tickets/merchandise were bought before the current economic situation) and the largest ever NHL escrow return this year (I've seen a $4m per team estimation). Since I did all that bull$#@% above, you can be the one to research this if you care to debate numbers further.

Well, as I understand it, the team has to compensate all the contracts of the players it leaves hanging, so it was thus more economical to get a dollar for a player before folding than it was to hang onto them and pay off their contracts.

Yea, sorry, I'm so used to being a fan of a cup winning team I forgot how much of an accomplishment that is for some teams.

Only if you're on a s***ty team, or in the east.

Edit: Decided to clear this, because I found Mike's above response epicly more amusing.

SV% is an interesting stat. GAA is a blend between the goaltender's performance and the team's. SV%.. is more like the +/- of goaltender stats. It's useful in context to the team's performance, but not necessarily for comparative analysis, because it fails to take too many impotant factors into consideration. Like +/-, it can be used to point out a clear standout (such as Hasek in Buffalo) but isn't necessarily the end-all be-all of judging goalie performance. The only way to do that, really, is through analysis of scoring chances, shot quality, situational play, and observation. SV% wise, Osgood has been terrible this season, but situationally, he's been pretty average, with some steals and some off nights.

Fixed!

You could have saved yourself the long post simply by reading the thread. I already made a roster projection that involves keeping Hossa and a full line up with reasonable salary expectations. This is what I had: Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Holmstrom Cleary - Flip - Hossa Leino - Helm - Kopecky Maltby - Draper - Downey (Meech) Rafalski - Lidstrom Kronwall - Ericsson Lilja - Stuart Meech Osgood Howard Tight roster? Yes? Tricky cap problem? Yes. Lack of depth? Hell no. Trade Lilja and keep Lebda and you've got roster room for 1 more cheap player, which makes more sense to me. Just for lulz, I'll say Cheli, but it could be any cheap d-man or just used to call up random GR folks. Lilja is a little more redundant with Stuart on the 3rd pair, and probably at his peak value. In that case, you have: Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Holmstrom Cleary - Flip - Hossa Leino - Helm - Kopecky Maltby - Draper - Downey (Meech) (Forward call-up?) (Edit: Or just to Babcock this -- Holmstrom - Datsyuk - Hossa Leino - Zetterberg - Cleary Helm - Filppula - Kopecky Maltby - Draper - Downey) Rafalski - Lidstrom Kronwall - Ericsson Lilja - Stuart Meech (Cheap d-man/d-man call up/Chelios?) Osgood Howard 22 man roster, star player on the 2nd line, 2nd line talent on the 3rd line, right up against the cap.. damn, that sounds familiar. Oh yes, the top team in the NHL amirite? The Franzen or Hudler projection: Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Holmstrom Franzen/Hudler (not both, sorry) - Flip - Sammy Leino - Kopecky - Cleary Helm - Draper - Maltby (Meech) (Downey OR 8th D-man) Rafalski - Lidstrom Kronwall - Ericsson Lilja - Stuart Meech (8th D-man OR Downey) Osgood Howard Same roster situation, same cap situation... depth advantage Hossa, imo (star player on 2nd line > 2nd liner on 3rd line)

YES! THANK YOU YOTES FOR NOT FAILING ONCE IN YOUR MISERABLE EXISTENCE!!

LOLOLOLOLOL @ Sharks homer announcers.

He shoulda taken his timeout 2 periods ago to change out his @$#% tie

motherf***er.

Not in the playoffs.

For better or worse, he should sig that XD

Oh man, I see what you mean about the tie. Must've been picked by his wife or something.

Yotes have, for the most part, been dominating this game. I guess we're seeing the usual 'end of the season' Sharks.

Problems is, the Wings don't lack depth, even losing Franzen, Hudler, Sammy, and Lebda. We play second liners on our 3rd and 4th lines when we're healthy, and have possible 2nd liners (Leino) scratched. Top 4 d-men (Ericsson) can't even fit on our team unless someone gets injured. Also, our goaltending is fine. SV% is a deceptive stat, and is almost as relative to defense as GAA is.

"Better person" and Brodeur don't really go hand in hand, but to answer that question, Osgood, obviously

166, actually. Or is it 167? Ozzie is sitting at 385 or 386 right now.

Good comeback win to keep the streak against Philly alive. Very solid performance by Ozzie, again.

Haha, we couldn't hit an empty net if the puck and net were magnetic.

Insert a delayed WOOOOOOOOOOoo for both goals!

We're probably missing the first Detroit hatty of the season because of this, and everyone misses out on Arbies.

And on a more serious note, congrats to Brodeur for his record win. Edit: Haha, Marty is cutting up the net to take it!