Datsyerberger

No Montreal on this? What? "Boooooooooo Ole ole ole ole Booooooooo BoooooooooooOOOOOoooo Ole ole ole ole Booooooooooooooooo Ole ole ole ole Ole Ole BOOOOOoooOOOoooooo" Insert some rioting and car burning at the end and you have the complete package. Yuck. Edit: Why are the Stars even on this list? They on the whole have a fanbase I find rather agreeable.

Yep. Other teams know that the Wings make good talent. The Wings garbage is their treasure.

Haha, he's one of the main people I was thinking of when I wrote this post. Crosscheck crosscheck shove crosscheck shove shove hold crosscheck bodyslam hold crosscheck.

Am I the only one here who caught "I DRAW DING DONGS ON PEOPLE!" Seriously, oh god. Shoulda read it before he said it.

Green? I thought forwards didn't qualify...

He missed one: "Five LGWers that quit the forums for at least a time and and abandon their Wings fandom, until there's an opportunity to jump back on the bandwagon, in outrage at a move Kenny did/didn't make at the deadline, thus cementing in their mind that the Wings will get spanked in the playoffs, likely the first round. This could be related to any of the below: Goaltending Enforcers Defense Coaching Fedoras Kopecky The (in)ability to sign every UFA/RFA in the offseason"

Rofl. And I have no idea how I stumbled in here, actually. TPBM ate a bagel.

By the way the pro-enforcer crowd around here talks I didn't think D-Mac counted as a fighter anymore.

Yea, especially since we're 2nd in the West. What a shame.

Lidstrom - Jonsson Kronwall - Ohlund Those are the top 2 pairs I'd use. Jonsson's strong offensive ability with Lidstrom's strong defensive (well, and offensive) ability. Kronwall's strong offensive ability and hitting with Ohlund's D.

Is this guy for serious? What does he do, bring a list of movie quote one-liners with him every broadcast and just pop one off after a goal? Lol The funniest thing to me, really, is the way he says: "SCCOOOORRRRGHGHGHGHRHGHHGHGHZ"

Thanks. You can have the stick from my last Hossa goal assist.

..A puck for you, maybe. You can trade me for Jordan Staal if you like how his contract appears to his performance better. Since we play a similar roll and all..

Well, you know, GMR, I just wanted to come in here and support the fans and let everyone know how charged up we are for another cup run. ..Anyone want some autographs while I'm here?

Hossa. Outdoor game Our killer PP% Datsyuk with highlight reel hits Datsyuk being Datsyuk Young talents like Hudler and Flip really kicking ass. Franzen proving it wasn't just an end of the year/playoff streak. The fact that if we're healthy during the playoffs, we're probably going to be playing atleast 1 second line capable player on the 4th line just due to depth. Babcock in a Fedora

His line was the one that was on the ice at the moment, not the 'tough-guy' line. And he decided to go. You'll see no problems with that from me. In case some of you've forgotten, Gordie Howe was one of our star forwards and dropping the mitts was part of his game. Yea, yea, I know, it's a long time ago, but how about a recent example? Iginla, anyone? I love a good hockey fight when it pops up (for good reasons! Not for every other good clean hit like nowadays). I'm no 'pro-enforcer' guy. I could do without hired goons, personally. But a skilled 3rd line power forward that can fight? A star player that likes to drop the mitts every now and then? A good physical d-man that'll occasionally get in a slugging fest? Sure thing.

Just to be a Wings homer for a moment in return, Kopecky clearly had Weber under control Seriously though, while I don't know if your post is right or not, Suter is that sort of respectful player so that is possible. On the other hand, don't forget Hossa is a large, pretty strong dude, and he has been known to drop the gloves occasionally.

Out of all those players, Lidstrom has by far the fewest giveaways and most PK time. In fact, when you do an analysis of giveaways to points ratio, Lidstrom blows every other Norris 'frontrunner' out of the water, including Chara. After looking the other day, I think I found out that the second closest to him in that regard among the top/near top tier is Weber. I think the main reason for Lidstrom's slight points decline this year is that he's leaving more of the offensive role to Rafalski, since that's Raffi's playground, and being a touch more conservative (and logging less PP time).

Good post, but I've already mostly given up here myself. Some people here just clearly do not understand the difference between total production and most efficient rate of production, and think the former is the end all be all. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess the games in the 12-13 minute category are 'normal' games, and the ones where he's logging 14-15 are PP heavy scorefests. Hudler seems to thrive in those. Pure speculaton on my behalf, though. And by the way: Lies, damned lies, and...

Yea. The odd thing about Osgood this year is he seems to be making the big saves but not the little ones. That's talk for a different thread, though.

This is why noone on this forum is the Wings GM or coach.

Well, I decided to call Hudler and Holmstrom a draw since Homer plays with more physicality, but yea, I did miss that. Noone here is gonna debate Homer's top line minutes, though XD I still like to step back for a moment whenever we have debates like this on LGW and realize just how NICE it is we're having debates about who's not the worst, but rather, the "least best" player for not only our top 2 but sometimes 3/4 of our forward lines! Personally, I hope Hudler - Flip - Hossa stays together. Hudler and Hossa have been freakin sweet together, because they'll both make plays, both shoot accurately, and both go to the net to finish stuff off. With ZDH as the top line, Flip is the best available for center for those two, as he's 4th for our centers in faceoffs.. unless of course you want Draper centering those two . He also helps provide breakout speed, and we know if he gets the puck to Hossa before he gets out-muscled, Hossa will do something worthwhile with it. That also makes for a line that has awesome shutdown potential, not as good as Z+D, but Flip + Hossa is no slouch in the backchecking department. Playing with hot hands like that is bound to boost Flip's offensive confidence, too. My third line? Leino - Franzen - Sammy Again, two defensively solid players and an offensive type. A playmaker, a shooter, and a scorer/screener/big body. It's a good, good day to be a Wings fan when this is your THIRD line. #4 Helm - Draper - Cleary It's that fourth line with grit, energy, and a youthful spark all along with Draper's faceoff ability that we've wanted all damned year. Putting Cleary on this line is not a knock against him. I put him here with the knowledge that he can be slotted into every other line in place of a tired player to give them energy, as well as log substantial PK time, taking the burden somewhat off of our more offensive players. Cleary is the ultimate utility player.

Well, seeing as the cap isn't an issue in the post season, you WILL see Leino and Helm over him, most likely. Just like they are now when we have the cap space. Kopecky is good for the role he plays, when he's healthy. Too many people here expect everyone on the roster to become the next Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Lidstrom. This is what you'll likely see in the playoffs, assuming everyone's healthy: ZDH Franzen - Flip - Hossa Leino/Hudler - Hudler/Helm - Cleary/Sammy Leino/Helm - Draper - Sammy/Cleary (While Leino on the 4th line may seem at first, it becomes after you realize he'd be playing against other team's crappy players) Kopecky, Maltby, D-Mac, Downey ALL potential good fill-ins Does the idea that we're likely going to have to play a 2nd liner on our 4th line just to make everything fit in the playoffs make anyone else here giddy?

A bit better. The biggest difference was that he was significantly grittier, and some people remember him throwing punches in the AHL, too. I think he'll be better after conditioning this off-season. He never really had a conditioning stint before this season, as he was recovering from his injury that summer (and probably has been half the season).

You have completely missed the concept of production amount vs production rate. If the image above didn't help, debating this with you is without a point. Regardless, one last attempt: PPM = production/scoring rate Point totals = production/point totals It is clear that Hudler's total production goes up with more icetime. That is irrefutable. However, his rate of production goes down. The efficiency of his production starts dropping rapidly beyond 13-14 minutes, and the two most likely candidates for this are: limit of endurance, or: unfavorable line matching. With either of these factors, his rate of production would likely further drop at 19 minutes of play. At that point, it could stagnate or even go negative (that is, his total production at 19 minutes could actually be less than at 16). Eventually, the curve begins to swing downwards.. Datsyuk isn't gonna be superman if he logs 60 minutes a game. It is at that certain point that it becomes similarly or more efficient to play someone who's RATE of production will not fall with a couple minutes of added ice time. If Hudler's point totals will rise by 6 with 2.5 minutes of added ice time (only a small percentage increase) and Flip's points will rise by 6 with the same amount of ice time (almost double the increase, percentage-wise), and when considering the other intangibles.. who do you want out there? On another note, Babs likes talent on talent line matching. A higher line for Hudler would often mean facing higher levels of talent. That's also another reason I think Babs doesn't play Huddles much on the 2nd line. All of the players in the top 2 lines are very solid two-way players. Hudler doesn't suck defensively, but everyone above him is better.