Datsyerberger

Yep. And that's why I say trade Flip. Cleary, NTC. Stuart, NTC. Homer isn't going anywhere. Flip = only option, and considering he's currently just a PK specialist on a PK loaded team, and doesn't put up near the numbers of Happy and the Mule right now...

Thread should be renamed to "Goalie Issues... Had to see this thread coming"

Darth Gerber finds Ottawa's lack of faith disturbing.

Not feeling disgust towards someone in an official's colors feels so.. unnatural.

I've optimistically tossed out that number for Hudler a few times. I just generally work around the idea that any 2 of Hudler, Flip, and Franzen is probably going to equal ~6m.

Slight overreaction imo, I think he's just holding out til near the trade deadline to get the best possible contract for both parties involved.

The line at the top of your sig wins this thread.

Just out of the sake of trying out, here's Hossa at some crazy 1 yr $5m deal (with the idea of signing him at more the next year, a scenario which I think is highly unlikely) with my previous numbers. Assuming each one of Franzen/Flip/Hudler makes 3m, I drop the latter 2 because we get picks for them, and retain Franzen. ZDH (7 + 6.7 + 2.25) = 15.95 Leino - Franzen - Hossa (3 + 5 + .9) = 8.9 Cleary - Helm - .5/yr player= (2.85 + .6 + .5) = 3.95 .5/yr player - Draper - Maltby = (.5 + 1.58 + .88) = 2.96 12 forwards = ~31.76 (Exact same number as the other scenario!) Lids - Raffi (7.45 +6) = 13.45 Kronwall - Stuart (3 + 3.75) = 6.75 Lilja - Ericsson (1.1 + .9) = 2 Lebda = .65 Meech = .5 8 d-men (one who can be 13th forward) = ~23.65 Osgood = 1.4 Howard = .75 (or Larsson at .85, not a substantial difference 2 goalies = ~2.15 22 man roster 31.76 + 23.65 + 2.15 = 57.56 Yea, with a 56m cap, unless Hossa takes a $3m 1 year deal (lol) or we lose Franzen as well and replace him with a 1m/yr player (or 2 .5/yr players for a 23 man roster), Hossa just isn't gonna work. That's Hossa signing at 5/yr, losing all 4 of Franzen, Sammy, Hudler, and Flip, or Hossa signing at 3/yr, losing Sammy, and losing 2 of Franzen, Hudler, and Flip. We don't keep Hossa unless we don't get Z, or both Franzen and Hudler's agents are entirely unreasonable, imo.

Front-loading is how I expect Z at 7m/yr to work. It may work for Franzen as well, and get him down to 3m/yr, since he's 30. I think Sammy is going to get 1.5m/yr (or likely more) whether its front-loaded or not, and I don't think Hudler is going to take a contract smaller than 3m/yr unless it's frontloaded. Again, using those numbers, any 2 of Franzen/Flip/Hudler for a combined 6m/year = Sammy gone (plus the odd man out). I think we're most likely to keep Franzen.. he's our only big body top 6, and we don't get anything if we lose him to UFA. We can trade Flip for picks and/or a good cheap energy player and we can lose Hudler to RFA for picks. Therefore, I think we retain Franzen, and keep one of those 2, gaining picks for the one lost, and lose Sammy to UFA. We have players trying to claw their way up from GR that we can replace Sammy and Flip or Hudler with.. Leino and Helm.

If Flip's contract magically shrinks, Franzen and Hudler are signed for 1.5m each, and Sammy signs for 1m, then yes. If Hossa is retained we likely lose every one of them, except maybe Sammy. Sorry, not trying to rag on ya. I'd love to keep them all myself. Let me throw down some numbers. It's disheartening, really. Lets be super optimistic, and say Franzen signs for 3, Hudler for 2, Sammy for 1. ZDH (7 + 6.7 + 2.25) = 15.95 Franzen - Flip - Hudler (3 + 3 + 2) = 8 Cleary - Leino - Sammy = (2.85 + .9 + 1) = 4.75 Helm - Draper - Maltby = (.6 + 1.58 + .88) = 3.06 12 forwards = ~31.76 Lids - Raffi (7.45 +6) = 13.45 Kronwall - Stuart (3 + 3.75) = 6.75 Lilja - Ericsson (1.1 + .9) = 2 Lebda = .65 Meech = .5 8 d-men (one who can be 13th forward) = ~23.65 Osgood = 1.4 Howard = .75 (or Larsson at .85, not a substantial difference 2 goalies = ~2.15 22 man roster 31.76 + 23.65 + 2.15 = 57.56 Drop Sammy and replace him with a .5/yr player and you're at 57.06. Drop Flip instead and replace him with a .5/yr and you're at 54.56. That works with a 55 mil cap.. if you think Hudler and Franzen will sign for a combined $5m/yr, which I don't. I think even $6m/yr combined for those 2 is optimistic, so throw that number in instead and you're at 55.56, which works at a 56m cap.. of course, thats assuming Sammy signs at a hugely optimistic 1m/yr. If he signs at 1.5/yr or more, he doesn't fit either, or if the cap is 55m with any 2 of Franzen + Flip + Hudler at a combined $6m, he doesn't fit. Realistically, keep 2 of Hudler, Flip, Sammy, and Franzen, with atleast 1 of them at a bargain contract. Flip + Sammy Hudler + Sammy Franzen + Sammy Franzen + Hudler (that one will be the most difficult imo) Franzen + Flip Hudler + Flip

If Flip's contract magically shrinks, Franzen and Hudler are signed for 1.5m each, and Sammy signs for 1m, then yes. If Hossa is retained we likely lose every one of them, except maybe Sammy. Sorry, not trying to rag on ya. I'd love to keep them all myself. Let me throw down some numbers. It's disheartening, really. Lets be super optimistic, and say Franzen signs for 3, Hudler for 2, Sammy for 1. ZDH (7 + 6.7 + 2.25) = 15.95 Franzen - Flip - Hudler (3 + 3 + 2) = 8 Cleary - Leino - Sammy = (2.85 + .9 + 1) = 4.75 Helm - Draper - Maltby = (.6 + 1.58 + .88) = 3.06 12 forwards = ~31.76 Lids - Raffi (7.45 +6) = 13.45 Kronwall - Stuart (3 + 3.75) = 6.75 Lilja - Ericsson (1.1 + .9) = 2 Lebda = .65 Meech = .5 8 d-men (one who can be 13th forward) = 23.65

So we keep Flip and Sammy and lose Hudler and Franzen? Franzen + Flip will be too expensive. Hudler + Flip will be too expensive. Sammy is our only option if we keep Flip.

Good thing, that stretch mesh stuff, especially in the underarms, is really nice.

To me, Flip's biggest strength right now isn't his scoring touch (obviously), but rather, his defensive and PK abilities. Do we really need to burn $3m/yr when we have Dats, Z, Franzen, and Cleary all on the PK who put up better offensive numbers as well, plus veterans Draper and Maltby, plus maybe even Helm? That's 6, maybe 7 reliable PKing forwards, 4 of which put up better offensive numbers, and (after the new contracts are done) 4 of which are cheaper. Unless he really starts lighting the lamp or kicks ass in the playoffs, I see Flip as a tradeable asset. Even on the 3rd line, Flip is playing with any 2 of Cleary, Hudler, and Sammy.. all of who are putting up better even strength points than he is.

Try Hank 7, an average of Franz + Hudlers contracts at average $3m each (even if its 3.5 one 2.5 the other.. ) which is being very optimistic. Sammy will be gone and replaced by a cheap player, and we lose at least one of Flip, Franzen, and Hudler, and very possibly 2 (the 2 most likely to go, imo, are Flip and/or Hudler.. Flip because he can land us picks/prospects, Hudler because we get picks if we lose him to RFA.. we get nothing for losing Franzen and he's our only big body top 6). Furthermore, in response to the spreadsheet (admirable effort, by the way), we're more likely to keep Lebda or bring up another d-man then Ritola, so we have 4 defensive pairings on the roster (3 on the ice), which seems to be how the Wings like to practice. Remember Meech is both our 13th forward and our 7th d-man, so we don't need to have a 13th forward (in this case, Ritola) on roster. I also don't think we're going to see Abdelkader full time, yet. If we have an extra forward slot, I think it's more likely we'll see rotated prospects to see who does well in the NHL. Helm and Leino are almost guaranteed, though. Babs loves both of them. Anyhow, pardon me for ragging on your contracts, I know you stated they were all bargains and are using that spreadsheet to point out how hard its going to be to keep just ONE of Flip, Hudler, Franzen, Sammy, much less 2 or more. I've made the same numbers argument over and over as of late, as have a few others, and it seems to get promptly ignored.

Say what you will about him being an occasional diver, a Therrien-influenced whiner, overhyped and possibly even a touch overrated.. I have great respect for the time Sid sets aside to work with kids. Same goes for Stamkos, too, who is already doing quite a bit working with them. It's good to see the new generation of NHLers is a classy one.

Uh, well, seeing as we're likely to lose 2, maybe even 3 of those just to be able to sign Z and one of Franzen or Hudler, its gonna happen anyhow. If Z signs for $7m/yr and Hudler OR Franzen signs for over $2.5, Flip may very well have to be traded, and Sammy will almost assuredly get a larger contract than he does now. In that case, we're going to need to replace them with cheaper players.. a perfect place for Leino to squeeze in. Now, onto Leino, he's jumped through the hoops, impressed in training camp and done well in the AHL.. if the Wings don't bring him on next season, it's probably in the best interest of his career to head back. That said, due to the above paragraph, I'm pretty certain we'll be seeing Leino.

Wow, I didn't know that guy on the Coyotes was that good.

Well, there's only so many ways you can spell "awesome".

GI is one of the most inconsistently called and unclear judgement calls in the game, at the moment, behind only hooking, high-stick goals, and kicking with the skate.

No worries, I'm pretty much a self-proclaimed Ozzie sympathizer and supporter.. hell, I believe he has a chance of being considered a top 20 all-time goaltender by the end of his career. Doesn't mean I'm particularly fond of his play right now.

Feel free XD

A new Lemieux-McCarty fight, as seen by internet forum posters. Lemieux cheapshots a player with his walker, drawing the ire of D-Mac, who hobbles over. They draw their canes, salute, and cross them, then proceed to repeatedly whack eachother over the heads while hanging onto the bench with their other hands for balance. D-Mac then hits Lemieux's hip, which gives out, Lemieux feebly falls to the ground, crumpling as D-Mac continues to land barely noticeable Yoda-esque cane strikes. Lemieux's age begins catching up to him, crying "what a world, what a world..!" as he melts into a puddle of goo.

Out of active NHL goaltenders, a prime Osgood or Brodeur. That's pretty good company to keep, imo. He was robbed.

To be fair, I think Chi-town belongs in the east as well, which is (part of) why I'm a proponent of a 32 team league (in which the 2 new teams go to the west, one east team moves west and Detroit and Chicago go east). But Detroit and Chicago are going to be used waaaay too much for drawing attention in the west, as they have been. On the other hand, I've read rumors on and off that the Wings have been promised a move east at the next opportunity, but I take all things like that with a grain of salt. Can anyone prove/disprove that one?