Datsyerberger

I'd rather have Coburn but so would Philly. More likely they trade Carle if they trade a d-man. On the other hand, Carle and Pronger was a rather good pairing for them. Who knows, maybe they would trade Coburn if they got solid value for him... but he's a large, effective d-man on a good contract.

I prefer one where we A: have someone other than Wiz, and B: Kindl has played well enough to be a full time D-man by that point.

Basically similar to Rafalski, but with more size to help him win physical contests (and better legs at this point). Same weaknesses as Raffi, really: occasional doofy giveaway, coughs up puck under pressure. Plays better in puck movement battles. Like Raffi, good first pass and his timing with jumping into the play is usually solid. Hits about as often (read: almost never). However, he's pretty good about blocking shots. Around a 140/82gp average the last 3 seasons, close to double Raffi's average. A little better rounded, more size (doesn't use it for much more than blocking shots and protecting the puck a little better), but he doesn't have the offensive creativity or explosiveness that Raffi does. Also worth noting he stays pretty healthy. Last 3 seasons were 82 gp, 80 gp, 76 gp; 62 GP before that with SJ (some of that may have been scratched), 80gp before that (77 in NHL, 3 in AHL).

I think he's a good fit in Nashville, personally.. Trotz system and his play were made for eachother.

Yes, was incorrect about that. It's a full NTC (can't trade without him waiving, can put him on waivers) until 15-16, then a limited NTC (of the 'pick x teams' variety) thereafter.

I do.

Don't see why they'd trade Carter if they just locked him up to a huge, long deal. And on the subject of that, it has an NMC that kicks in after FA iirc. Do you want a 10/11/however the hell long it was deal on an NMC if it's a guy we've never seen on this team? No thanks.

Not only that, but new group trying to make a new impression. They may be trying to send the message "we won't not suspend you just because it's the playoffs". I hope that's the case, and I also hope they go for "we won't not suspend you just because you're a star player or an important player on a star's team".

Uhhh, Bert? The guy's built like a mac truck and while he's not "Old Bert" he still throws his weight around a bit. Canadian boy. Cleary? Only 6'0, but 210 lbs of bulk in that 6'0, another Canadian boy who throws his weight around. Abdelkader? 6'2, 215, throws his weight around. Michigan kid, that's pretty much south Ontario amirite? Franzen.. okay, big, not gritty. Swede. Plays like a big Swede. Anyhow, wingers are where Holland DOES add his size, often via FA. On the other hand, our centers are tiny. And our D are shrimps, too.. most are either small or not gritty by any stretch of the imagination. But if there is any one place I do expect Holland to add size via FA (whether it's aggressive size like Bert, or passive size like Hossa), it's on the wing.

Yep. And while I would like us to see us get bigger/grittier, I don't really think forward is a serious concern there, which is why I'd be equally happy with Ryder, Jokinen, or Upshall. Our forwards with grit: Cleary Helm Bert Abdelkader Holmstrom (in his own special way) Eaves forwards with good size: Franzen Bert Abdelkader Cleary (not tall, but bulky) Not the best in the league, but definitely not the worst either. Our D, on the other hand, is small and soft. Lidstrom's of average height and great physical condition for his age, but not gritty by any stretch. Ericcson is tall, but not bulky at all, and not gritty at the moment. Stuart has good size and is gritty. Kronwall is small and has little grit outside his occasional train wrecks. Kindl might as well be Ericsson 2.0. Rafalski was/is tiny. Need some bulk on the D. I'd also say at center, but we have good centers. And our front of net is day/night.. our wingers are great at going to the net, but our D can't clear the front of our own to save their own lives. Further evidence of where we need the size/grit, imo.

That's another reason for "no to Hartnell". 4.2 in a forward when we need to make some serious D moves? No thanks. If we can shore up our D and then get a forward in the 1.5-3m range, I'd take a good look at that. Fair to say Jokinen and Upshall might fall in there? Maybe escalate the range to 3-3.5 for Ryder or Jokinen, but I think it may be feasible to attain one or the other around or just above 3.

Ryder's going to be cheaper this upcoming UFA, and certainly cheaper than Hartnell. He'd be a great fit imo, speed and shot on the wing.. lord knows we need that in a more consistent combination than Eaves. Might have to overpay a little for Jokinen, but overpaying Jokinen still wouldn't be as much as Hartnell. I'm all for adding size and edge with some offense, but not in the form of Hartnell. Adding 140-150 PIM a year, around 100 of those stupid and unnecessary, is not what a team that's had a struggling PK needs to do. Upshall is a much more attractive option. He doesn't have the offense of Hartnell, but it's quite enough for our 3rd line, he'll be way cheaper even if we overpay, and he'll add all the grit with about 80 less PIM in a full year.

Agree, Upshall would be a very interesting option as well, and way the hell cheaper than Hartnell.

Wouldn't trade Hudler for that low of value unless we have deals lined up that require clearing his cap space. If we don't, better to keep him than to send him out for that low an asset.

I did say Laich, right? I'm fairly sure I did. Other UFA options: Ryder (Faster, better shot/shoots more, better overall offense when not playing in offensively dead Boston, less penalties, probably cheaper) Cole (more offense, similar grit, possible injury concerns however, possibly cheaper) Tanguay (way more offense, maybe cheaper, but older) Jokinen (similar offense, better shootouts, way less penalties, cheaper) There are other options as well, but that's probably the best fits.

And it would be much, much more silly to have Hartnell at that price.

A player of lesser or equal salary with similar offensive numbers and half or less of the boneheaded penalties/plays. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of signing Laich at over 4, but I'd rather pay Laich 4.2 or even 4.5 than 4.2 for Fartsmell.

Let's add loads more bad penalties for our trashy PK to deal with, that sounds like a great idea.

Not opposed if we replace with an equal or better forward without sacrificing too much cap hit we need for D. Based upon what criteria?

Cap hit is the only thing that matters to a wealthy team like Detroit. Salary is still very easily modulated through graduated contracts even after the Kovalchuk mess, there's just a bit more limitations and a bit more expectation to use caution. The primary concern with the Kovalchuk type contracts was large tails of small salary that extended well past the veterancy age. Avoid that, peachy. They didn't change the structure rules, just an age modifier (40+ tails don't count towards cap hit). Something legal but ridiculous like 11, 11, 11, 11 5.5, 1, 1, 1 (with 1, 1, 1) occuring at ages 37, 38, and 39) might face scrutiny as well. 31 year old signed to a salary worth 9.9/year over the first 5 years, but a cap hit of just over 6. Listing salary of already signed players is pointless in a discussion about caphits unless you're talking about a brokeass team, period. Using salary was an attempt to inflate numbers for the sake of your argument, which would have been perfectly valid without said inflation. You were talking worth, worth is all about cap hit to competing teams. Don't try to jerk me around.

If they get him, they shed from forward scoring depth and D: FORWARDS Ville Leino ($3.000m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Andreas Nodl ($1.000m) Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m) / Darroll Powe ($0.950m) Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m) DEFENSEMEN Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m) Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m) Nick Boynton ($0.500m) / Danny Syvret ($0.600m) GOALTENDERS Ilya Bryzgalov ($6.000m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $62,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,294,155; BONUSES: $1,825,000 CAP SPACE (25-man roster): -$8,794,155 Subtract 2 forwards and a d-man. Note that I used some players, like Carcillo and Boynton, as fill-ins for possibly other players making similar money. Imo, bye-bye Versteeg, Hartnell, Coburn or Carle: Briere (6.5) - Richards (5.75) - Giroux (3.75) JVR (1.645) - Carter (5.272) - Leino (3.5?) ? (1.0?) - ? (1.5?) - Nodl (1.0?) Betts (0.7)- Powe (0.95?) - Laperriere (1.116) Holmstrom (0.75) Subtotal = 33.433 Timmonen (6.333) - Pronger (4.921) Meszaros (4.0) - Coburn or Carle (3.2/3.437) Syvret (0.6) - Bartulis (0.6) ? (1.0) Subtotal = 20.654 or 20.891 Bryz (6.0) Bob (1.75) Subtotal = 7.75 Bonuses = Neighborhood of 1.8 Total = 63.637 or 63.874 A lot closer to the cap. Cheaper UFAs (the 7th d-man, some of the bottom 6 forwards) possibly moving Bob and using cheaper Leighton as backup all options to get under the cap. Maybe longer, cheaper contract for Bryz (5.5, longer term). Hard to say for sure, but in any case I think it looks like 2 forwards and a d-man are gone. Cap-wise, Hartnell is the best forward option, and I think they'd rather keep Leino over Versteeg if they can re-sign Leino. If they can't, then Versteeg is a cheaper option than my projected 3.5. Coburn or Carle honestly depends on who they can get the value for, or what value they can get from a package. Carle played well with Pronger, did he not?

If he puts in good effort in camp and pre-season, I would not be opposed to seeing him on a "top line" that's actually sort of a 1A scenario, particularly if the Wings are trying to roll 3 scoring lines. Hudler tends to be at his best with other high end offensive talent and people that can cover his flaws (slow skating, meh defense partly due to said slow skating). Hudler - Datsyuk - speed/size Franzen - Zetterberg - Anything Bertuzzi - Filppula - Speed/defense With present forwards: Hudler - Datsyuk - Cleary Franzen - Zetterberg - Holmstrom Mursak - Filppula - Bertuzzi Abdelkader - Helm - Eaves If Hudler is playing well enough to justify putting anywhere in the top 9, you don't want Hudler with Filppula. That's just ugly. That excludes lines of: Anyone - Datsyuk - Anyone Anyone - Zetterberg - Anyone Hudler - Filppula - Anyone and Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Anyone Hudler - Filppula - Anyone Basically, Hudler shouldn't feature on the same line with Filppula. It's ugly. So if Hudler is playing up to that level, it leaves line combos of: Hudler - Datsyuk - Someone (Hudler plays better with Datsyuk than Zetterberg) Someone - Zetterberg - Someone Someone - Filppula - Someone or Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom/Cleary Bertuzzi - Filppula - Franzen Hudler - Helm - Cleary Option 1 there seems to work when Hudler is playing well. Option 2 isn't as exciting.. Hudler doesn't seem to do as well with players of relatively low skill. Though I'd say that line is a fair sight better than the Hudler - Modano - Cleary from this last year; Helm + Cleary may have enough speed/grit/d to balance Hudler. I'm just not sure they can all finish well together. Such is why Hudler makes sense on a 1A/1B scoring line with our present forwards if he's earned any icetime at all.

Decided I'd illustrate this: A: Horton is entering the neutral zone and examining his options, Rome is just ahead of the red line, skating back into defensive position. Ho-hum B: Horton looks over at his winger option, sees him opening up along the boards. He accelerates a little to the left as he enters the circle to put him more squarely between the 2 Nucks d-men. Rome still chugging along. He's ready to pass. The dotted black line indicates the direction in which Horton's head is turned. C: At this point, the puck is coming off Horton's stick. He keeps his eye on his winger in preparation to accelerate, making sure he'll be onsides. Rome, meanwhile, is just starting to adjust his stride, away from position (one that will put him between the net and Horton as well as leave him open to cover his side on a dump in) and on a course that will take him across the blue line, towards his partner. The yellow lines indicate Horton's likely field of vision. D: Horton is just starting his stride and turning his head back towards the middle of the ice. Rome is adjusting himself and is starting his lateral movement. E: At this point, Horton is probably 2-3 steps into his acceleration. Rome is on roughly his second lateral stride. Rome is just outside of Horton's vision, on his blindside. If Horton notices him at all, it's in his peripheral and he hasn't really figured out what's going on yet. The black lines indicate they're both accelerating. F: Point where contact begins. At this point, Rome has both adjusted his skating and then made two strong lateral pushes plus another stride or two worth of gliding east-west into Horton's path. Horton has taken 3 strides, in the middle of #4, probably noticing Rome far too late as he enters his vision. Contact is made more or less with the full of Rome's body into Horton's left chest/collar bone area. The green line indicates Rome's overall trajectory during this sequence. So there are multiple things in play here. Horton is reasonably safe; he assessed Rome's position, looked over to make his pass, kept his head up a moment to check onsides. In that moment, Rome slid into his blindside and began to adjust his own stride. Horton glides a couple steps' worth at this point, then begins to accelerate as he begins to turn his head back. At this point, he figures he's safe as he's already glided a couple strides worth after his pass, Rome wasn't close enough to make contact at this point. Horton begins to accelerate forwards as his vision returns to the middle of the ice, but doesn't notice Rome as Rome is fully in his blindside at this point. Rome's lateral steps begin not only after the puck has left Horton's stick, but after Horton's glided a little. Their accelerations begin at roughly the same point. By the time they make contact, Horton has made 3 to 4 accelerating strides and Rome has made an adjustment, 2 lateral strides and another 1-2 strides worth of gliding as he braces for the hit, moving fully east-west by the time of contact. Ultimately, Rome creeps into Horton's blindside and begins to accelerate towards Horton well after the puck is off Horton's stick. Horton begins to accelerate, the puck at his winger by now and Rome is just beginning his own stride at that point. He has another stride or two plus a little more distance worth of gliding to decide to ease up on the hit, though he's already put himself in a stride that will bring him out of position. Probably subconsciously realizing he's already begun to take himself out of position, he continues accelerating towards Horton even though Horton has traversed most of the Canucks half of the neutral zone since releasing the puck. Even though Horton's vision returns, at this point Rome is well into his blindside and Horton doesn't likely see him until it's too late to do anything. Not only does Rome not back off the hit, but he even puts follow through into it. This play contains: 1. East-west blindside hit, though it wasn't targeting the head, it was a blindside that caused injury. 2. Extremely late, not enough so to be totally away from the play but well after the puck is gone from Horton. 3. Possible charging, as Rome accelerates laterally into the hit and towards Horton. There's no doubt he did so with intent of violent contact. 4. Possible headhunting, or at least very stupid decision making, as Rome put himself out of position to make this hit and followed through either because he realized he'd put himself in a dumb spot, or because his intent was to demolish Horton. 5. Resulting injury. Unbraced contact at high speed, the very likely concussion was probably sustained at impact due to the sudden G force acceleration and whiplash, rather than when he hit the ice (he was probably already out by that point). Doesn't really help matters with the above 4 conditions. All of this adds up to a long suspension. I think the NHL got it right.

They've laid off of him a lot this post-season, where he's been more solid than expected.

Indeed. Ericsson... The good: Passing (for his role), skating (for his size), positioning, shot, his physical play on the rare occasions he uses it The bad: Inconsistency, failure to put of all his tools together, not using his shot The ugly: Rarely using the physical element in his game, too many untimely penalties, coughing up the puck easily under pressure