Datsyerberger

Oh lawdy lawd, I must have missed that one.

Epic! This Bridgestone commercial has an octopus in it! It's a sign!

Cheli hat trick! Doo eeeet1

Just did some more math. Yep, losing people is gonna suck. Dats - Z - Homer Franzen - Flip - Leino Hudler - Helm - Cleary Maltby - Draper - Kopecky Meech Raffi - Lids Kronner - Stuart Big Rig - Lebda Some Cheap Guy (prospect?) Ozzie Howard or Larsson Equals 57.5-58 mil, assuming Z gets 7 mil and Franzen and Hudler get 3. In other words, 1.5-2 mil over the cap with a 22 man roster. That's after having traded Lilja and lost Sammy, Hossa, Conklin, and Chelios to UFA, and replaced them with cheaper players (or not replaced them at all). Basically, unless the Wings experience a minor miracle from the divinity of Kenny Holland, we have to lose one of Flip, Hudler, or Franzen (or Kronwall or Raffi, but that would just be silly). In that case, not only will be under the cap, but we can have a 23 man roster and keep Lilja (probably not Sammy, as I expect him to make more money this offseason). Just for the sake of argument, let's say we lose Flip or Hudler. If you use the same line-up and call it the Minor Miracle scenario, in which Z takes 7 mil and Franzen and Hudler take 2 mil each (or any of combination of numbers which equals 4 mil total, like Franzen = 2.5 and Hudler = 1.5 or whatever), you come in between 55.5 and 56 mil, so right up on the current cap. Dats - Z - Homer Franzen - Flip OR Hudler - Leino Kopecky - Helm - Cleary Maltby - Draper - Mac/Downey/Some Other Cheap Guy Meech Raffi - Lids Kronner - Stuart Big Rig - Lilja Lebda Chelios? (lets say he resigns for .6 -- if you loathe him, just pretend he gets replaced with a prospect of equal monetary value) Ozzie Howard or Larsson Equals 55.91 -- In other words, somewhere just under the (current) cap. Go to a 22 man roster (since you have the versatility of Meech, either by dropping one of the spare forwards or one of the d-men) and you're about half a mil under the cap. The next one is what I'll call the "Holland Just Died, and then Rose Again After 3 Days" scenario. Zetterberg takes Datsyuk money, Franzen and Hudler take cheap short term deals (1.5 each), Hossa takes a cheap short term deal (3.5). Assumes Flip gets traded, Sammy & Conklin are gone, Chelios is gone. Hossa - Dats - Homer Franzen - Z - Leino Hudler - Helm - Cleary Maltby - Draper - Kopecky Meech Raffi - Lids Kronner - Stuart Lilja - Big Rig Lebda Ozzie Howard or Larsson Equals about 55.5 mil, give or take a couple decimal places. Git r done, Kenny

Due to skimming, you must have missed noticing that even without Sammy, with only 22 on the roster and with Z only making 7 mil, and Franzen and Hudler only getting 3 mil each, Flip must go or we'll be almost 2 mil over the cap. Or, we just don't take Hudler, in which case we keep Flip and get a couple of cheap players or bring up prospects.

This isn't meant to be anything TOO serious. I'm just wondering what the Wings could look like in a handful of years, when Lidstrom, Draper, Cheli, Maltby, and possibly Homer have all retired. This contains optimism and a lot of speculation. Just interested to see where others think we could end up. Dats - Z- Franzen Cleary - Hudler - Leino Kopecky - Helm - Current Prospect? -- I'm being very nice to Kopecky and assuming he improves a little. Prospect? - Prospect? - Meech -- Obviously, Meech rotates D & forward depending on need Prospect OR Downey -- Being hopeful for Downey Raffi - Kronner Stuart - Big Rig Lilja - Kindl Lebda -- Being nice to Lebda. I'm pretending he does something to make him worth keeping around as a 7th D-man. Or just put a prospect in this spot. 8th D: Another prospect Howard/Larsson as 1A and 1B until one clear #1 is obvious, McCollum getting plenty of development time. Free agent signings: I'm not even going to try to take any guesses here. That's far too unpredictable. Here's some realistic speculation, though: A 2nd line scorer if the 2nd line isn't strong enough? A skilled 3rd or 4th line vet? A capable goaltender, backup or starting, if one or both of Larsson and Howard don't pan out? Assuming everyone on the roster develops into their currently estimated potential (Hudler, Franzen, Kronwall, Big Rig, Kindl, Leino, Kopecky, Helm, and both goaltenders), that still looks quite playoff-worthy. Even though there are some big question marks, I think we still have a solid core even after Homer, Ozzie, Lidstrom, Draper, and Maltby are gone.

Fair enough

I would suggest that's more because of giving Meech time with an experienced d-man (that is, after all, the primary purpose of Cheli's contract) than demonstrative of the actual pairings tomorrow.

Well, sorta, now you have to explain how you're gonna fit All 5 of Hank, Hudler, Franzen, Flip, and Sammy this offseason . With the same roster we have right now, with no chelios or hossa (and howard or larsson instead of conklin), and assuming Hank only gets 7, and Hudler and Franzen only get 3, and Sammy only gets what he's earning now, that comes out to around 58-58.5 mil, which is 2-2.5 mil above the current cap, which is likely to decrease. Edit: That's a 22 man roster, too.

Yea, because god knows that leading the playoffs in scoring or pulling off PK defense so good that it makes highlight reels in an offensive-centered NHL isn't leading by example. (And it's well proven that #1 is important to team success. Just look what happened with Crosby in the last SCF..)

Or maybe this argument and not an "aaaaarrgh.. who the hell is there thats good and would want to play here!" like Edmonton... Oh snap.

Another thing... Wait.. you mean that Lidstrom guy being there had nothing to do with it? A shame he wasn't made an alternate captain underneath him.. Oh, wait.

Logical fallacies again. Please show where I used any quote at all, or even more specifically, a 3 year old one.

I'm never gonna forget that picture from the MS Paint thread during the playoffs.

Just because I think Zetterberg will make a better captain over Datsyuk does not mean I think Datsyuk is a locker room cancer. Saying that I have no argument while logical fallacies substantiate your own does not make for good debate. If Captaincy is based solely on points, faceoff %, takeaways, funny jokes in broken english, hits, and stickhandling -- Yes, Datsyuk should Captain the Wings. If there are 'intangibles' that we, as fans, cannot perceive or experience as a whole, and these intangibles are worth enough for Captaincy that it's okay if the player is only the "2nd best" performer--well, people with far better credentials than my own apparently think it's Zetterberg.

Please check Yzerman in the 90s/early 2000. Was he unworthy of the Captaincy because he scored less than Fedorov? Or less Selkes. Maybe Shanahan should have been Captain, because he had fighting AND grit AND goalscoring...! There are qualities that we, as fans, can not observe -- likely the same qualities that continually result in hints from the Wings organization that Zetterberg is the future leader of the Wings.

Warning: Proclaiming Lidstrom is overrated on this board may make your entire argument look idiotic.

Okay, I'm fine with that. But why not? Who are we losing instead of Flip? We do have a cap to fit in. Here are a few decisions you have to make: (Only applies if Sammy will take the same money he makes now) Lilja vs Sammy Zetterberg vs Hossa If above: Franzen, Hudler, Filppula -- Choose any 2 Zetterberg AND Hossa vs Franzen, Hudler, Filppula (plus potentially another player) Alternates to keeping Flip while keeping Franzen and Hudler (Warning: May contain material disturbing to some viewers): Trade Datsyuk (lololololol) Trade Rafalski Trade Kronwall (more realistic, but Kronwall @ 3m > Flip @ 3m) Trade Stuart (NTC/NMC, yes?) (3.75m) Trade Cleary (NTC/NMC again) (2.85m) Trade Holmstrom and any .5-.8 player (ex. Holmstrom + Maltby). And then you have an extra roster spot to fill with less cap Make Flip work in such a way that doesn't result in the Wings getting screwed. Franzen and Flip = Hudler gone and Hudler and Flip = Franzen gone. Is Flip worth the loss of either of those players? Over half a season and likely the playoffs to find out, but AS OF RIGHT NOW: I say no.

No arguments here.

Who cares that Crosby will/won't be mentioned more... you mean I don't have to hear the word "back" and such weird directional statements as "around back behind" and "back in forward" every other sentence? SWEET ******* GOD, YES!

Thanks for that large summation. Some will argue that just because A doesn't necessarily = B when it comes to arguments like that, but that's a worthwhile comparison. Just to play devil's advocate here, you could argue that Z has played on a superior team, in argument for his numbers. Still, the most you can call it is a draw. There's no real truth to saying Hossa is superior (for a true test of skill, see 2008 SCF)

Don't get me wrong, Datsyuk (and Ovenchicken) has some hilarious lines. But the broken english is part of what makes it funny. Some would debate whether that's a good thing or not for a captain on a North American team. Anyone that argues the italicized is a ******* moron (as I hope you'll agree). Datsyuk is widely regarded as one of the most exciting and flashy players in the league by anyone that knows anything about the league other than the top 3 players for their team. However, you are seriously undervaluing Zetterberg's highlightreelness. Did you miss the playoffs, or just most of his goals this year? As for Lidstrom being a boringr.. personality wise, no, he's not Iginla. He's not any more boring than the league's poster boy, though. As for him being a boring player.. I and many others here find him one of the most exciting players on the team (admittedly, though, it does take an experienced hockey-watching eye to enjoy Lidstrom to the fullest). Expect to catch some flak over that statement. Edit (Yea yea, I can never get it done in one post): I'm not disagreeing that there are many who regard the Wings as a boring team. The reason for that, however, is not because of a lack of a flashy player, but rather the lack of fights and a low amount of grit and physicality as compared to many other teams in the league.

Want to fascinate yourself even further, check out how many of those last 12 have been shutouts, and how many of those have been 4+ goal games for the Wings.

Hahaha, that's f***in' brutal. Ouch, man. (Don't get discouraged, Zune -- its a tough crowd here)

Datsyuk-Hank-Cleary is a line I can live with as well -- if Cleary's offense picks up again. That's a quite skilled 2nd line, but possibly too lacking in size and grit. That's not a 3rd line I'd be opposed to, if Abdelkader proves his worth in the NHL, and Kopecky improves. Filppula over Franzen? I'm curious in your argument for that. They're both defensively responsible, but Franzen is larger and puts up more points thus far. Are you possibly just making a case for Flip + Leino? I think that'd be cool to see, if we could somehow pull it off--but not at the expense of a superior player. Or are you estimating that Franzen will get a 4+/yr contract this offseason? In that case, we would have a hard time fitting him (but not Flip), and it's an argument that's certainly plausible. As for Sammy, we just don't have room for him this upcoming offseason, unless he signs for the same money (which I doubt, given his numbers) and we trade Lilja to replace with a .5/yr d-man.