Dr Rosenrosen

Why do so many of you Detroit fans have to make SO MUCH SENSE!

Understood. We can probably all let this thread die in a dignified manner.

...said the fan of the team who won the President's Cup. Dude, what do have to whine about other than not having an easier team to play in the finals?

I saw that coming. Who isn't a stiff compared to Lidstrom? There's no doubt your top 4 are better and it's your biggest edge against most teams. I was making the point that the Rafalski/Gonchar +/- comparison is not a great argument for who's team is better. I think each guy/team is best in the current situation. I wouldn't trade if given the chance, though I'd take Rafalski to pair with Gonch in a heartbeat. Gill is our only pylon, but he's a very big pylon with a long reach and long stick to go with great hands. He also gets the needed help when he actually has to skate somewhere, dragging the Zamboni chained to his waist. Bottom line: Our team D is better than most people think because it only happened fairly recently.

You're absolutely right. Personally, I think the individual playoff goal scoring stats are somewhat overrated. Further, the Pens' have many puck bunny fans who tend to get a little hyper-focused on Sid/Geno. This team is so much more and all the elements have come together at just the right time including, but not limited to... 1-Gonchar realized the "D" stands for Defenseman and not "Dude That Scores Goals." 2-Fleury found a mentor in Ty Conklin and confidence. 3-Letang and Kennedy became solid NHLers very quickly. 4-Ryan Malone finally figured it all out. 5-The team bought into a D-first mentalilty even without the greatest individual D-men in the league. 6-Shero found 2 wingers for Sid that play his style, one being a top scorer and the best back checking forward I've seen since a guy who wore #66 awhile back. 7-Our Big 2 are underrated defensively because they haven't built the league-wide reputation yet. 8-19 year-old Jordan Staal became one of the best shut-down centers in the league in his 2nd year. 9-And yes, Malkin became a beast when he got to be "The Man" for awhile. Having said all that, Detroit is better on paper and deserves to be favored (anywhere from 4/7 to 5/6 from what I've seen). I won't come to a Wings board and predict a Pens' series win. However, there are many surprises awaiting those who haven't been watching these guys advance as a complete team.

OK. Let's switch it up. Let's pair Gonchar with Lidstrom and Rafalski with "stiff of the month" and see how those numbers reverse.

That's some extremely insightful analysis on your part. Way to break it down. The Pens were 8-1-1 against the West, a schedule that included every West playoff team except the Wings and Preds. 3 of the wins came in succession on the Western Canada road trip. Next...

Actually. Tix for games 1 & 2 have been plentiful in presale - started Wed, still lots of seats left, and Pens fans buying. Also, there's a few thousand already on StubHub for both games (I assume these are season ticket holders). Got mine. See you there?

If that's a penalty, then the rules must be different in the East. I can thnk of at least a half dozen playoff goals scored by the Rangers, Flyers and, yes, the Penguins that should have been disallowed using an even lower standard than what Holstrom did. It's really about what any reasonable sports fan wants - consistency. Set a standard and follow it regardless of the player, score, or game situation.

Oh Dear Lord. Here it comes...

Both teams close it out this weekend.

Oh, game 4 was last night? I thought I was watching an AHL game.

Pens close it out 3-1 (w/ empty netter). Without Timonen and Coburn, their forwards have no support coming through the neutral zone, so the Pens continue to trap and be patient for chances.

It's true that the reason the Pens board is currently closed is due to classless Cryers trolls . The mods locked it just after our series over the Rangers, and I expect the board to be open once the current series is over. Comments on our board have already identified Wings fans as generally reasonable and it's also been my experience here so far. I also recognize that some of the comments in the Wings thread over there are quite idiotic. We have more than our fair share of puck bunnies, but it's generally just plain homerism and excitement. There's no doubt we haven't faced anything like Detroit yet (especially the depth on D) and you seem to be peaking, which is even scarier. Based on some of the stuff I've been reading here, however, many will be surprised when they find that the Pens are much more than a 3-man team you can roll. We're going to put up a good fight (assuming we make it to the finals). I look forward to some good discussions along the way, with a little trash talk mixed in of course. I'd wish you luck for the rest of the Stars series but, frankly, we'd like to see it drawn out to 7 with several OTs. So I'll just wish you get Franzen back soon and that no one else goes down. P.S. I am incredibly jealous over the number and coolness of your emoticons. We have like, 20 total. Pathetic.

Old news. There's a new proctologist in town...

Starting the 1st period of the Rangers series down 3-0 was "some form" of adversity. So were the regular season key injuries, but you make a very valid point. Again, the Wings should win a 7 game series and will have to be the ones handling that pressure. I think you'll be surprised by the Pens composure though. Call it "youthful ignorance," but it's working. The Rags and Flyers tried to draw them into a knife fight and they didn't bite. The Wings will come at them with superior talent they'll need to deal with the initial "shock and awe." But I wouldn't underestimate them just because they are young. And sorry I hurt your feelings regarding JLA.

Can't disagree with any of that. I'm just hoping the Giants set the trend for 2008 championships.

I, too, wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. And Gonchar now plays D too. Miracles happen every day. I would never sit here and tell you we are 11-1 in the playoffs because of 2 players. You can flame me all you want, but I've watched every minute of every Pens game this year. If I were going to be a complete uneducated homer, I'd just become a Cryers fan.

First, Jagr was a beast in our series. Spezza and Heatley are no chumps. Nor is Richardson. Second, I was merely defending Gill from being called the worst D-man in the league because he's been far from it and we wouldn't be 11-1 without him.

Actually, it was the players who voted. That includes Stanley Cup winners Mark Recchi, Gary Roberts, and Daryl Sydor.

That's what I thought before we got him and he looked to prove it in the first two games (he was brutal). But since then, he's been amazing. Can't explain it. Don't want to. Just don't judge Gill and Gonchar based on prior seasons until you see them.

Yea, I guess I might back off the top 5 claim, but he belongs in the conversation with those guys. Look, I used to absolutely HATE the guy because of his poor D play. But the guy has made an unbelievable turnaround this year, routinely handling the top line shutdown assignment without having much for a partner (mostly Scuderi-are you kidding?).

I think the reason we were clogging up the neutral zone last night was to exploit a Flyers weakness with a lead. Without Timonen and Coburn, the Flyers' forwards had zero support and Therrien decided to keep them frustrated trying to gain the zone. I'm not sure how we'd play the Wings, but the Pens are a much more disciplined team than they get credit for so I wouldn't be surprised by a low scoring series.

After the Rags and Cryers, it's kinda strange to go to another team's board and read actual intelligent hockey discussion. I can't say I've seen more than a handful of Wings' games, so it's good to get a sense of what we might expect in the finals (should it match up that way of course ). Accordingly, I thought I'd add a few takes from a Pens' fan perspective in response to some previous posts. 1) Detroit will clearly be favored. Let's get that out of the way first. Too much talent and experience, top to bottom. 2) Detroit rolls 4 lines that score, but we are hardly a 2-line team offensively. 3 and 4 have come up with big goals at big times. They aren't called upon to score much, but they are outstanding in their roles. This is especially true of Jordan Staal, who may just be the best shut down center of the playoffs thus far. 3) The Pens style of play is extremely adaptable. We know we can't skate free against the Wings, but our dump and chase game is solid when we have to play it. All top 6 forwards are grinders; our stars have great hands, grit, and possession games. 4) The poster that suggested Sid and Geno get much of their production from cherry picking was just plain wrong. The discipline and defensive play of our forwards could be the single biggest reason for our playoff success so far. We have no Selke candidates, but they hardly suck defensively and Hossa is the best back checker I've seen since a guy that used to wear #66 for us a few years back. 5) You've only begun to see the chemistry building with the late addition of Hossa and Dupuis. You could never expect results just by throwing snipers out there with Sid - he needs certain kind of in-your-face players, and now we've got them. The PP has changed too, including Malkin at the point and he double-shifts with the 2nd unit on the half-board. 6) Our team face offs absolutely suck. However, few realize that it's mostly due to Malkin's abysmal sub-40%. Staal is 51%, Sid 49%, and Talbot/Hall are very capable. Therrien has become very good at protecting Malkin situationally, which explains why the stat sheet has not translated to the W-L record in that department. 7) Players who are better than you think: -Gonchar has become a complete D-man this season and the notion that he couldn't crack your top 4 is ridiculous. He's a top 5 D-man league-wide. -Gill is, indeed, a pylon. However, Fleury's crease used to be chaotic before Gill's arrival and now it's clean. He's improved our already solid PK greatly, plays great in his own zone, gets the required help, and has great hands. 8) X-factors: -Our ice sucks. It tends to neutralize our speed, but we still play unbeatable at home. Better ice on the road has actually been a blessing and will hopefully help mitigate the Wings' advantage there. That doesn't even mention your awful home crowd (no offense), which should be highly infiltrated with Pens fans. -I think the Pens have had to overcome better goaltending to get this far after facing Lundqvist and Biron. Turco was great in the 1st 2 rounds but, let's face it, that guy didn't show for your series - nor did the whole Stars team for that matter. They couldn't hit a soccer goal if they were allowed to throw the puck at it. Should be a great series and thanks for giving us our props. The pathetic Rags and Cyers fans all predicted sweeps for their teams. I'm almost dissappointed you aren't doing the same. (Note: future posts will be much shorter)