BewareThePenguin

Well Mr. Expert, perhaps you could use a little historical lesson yourself: By the way, what else would "clutching and grabbing" refer to if not done by an opposing player trying to stop him in his tracks -- a prom dance? That would be the very definition of defense. Might want to check the date on that article, too, Professor... don't think it was 2006.

I never thought Hossa broke the stick on purpose, looked like incidental contact. I wish we could run the video a couple seconds longer though -- one thing I did think happened was Hossa grabbing and tossing the stick away. Happened pretty fast though so hard to tell.

Bingo.

Hey, this guy said some stuff that wasn't all rah-rah about the Wings! Get out all those troll signs guys! The nerve!

I never argued the point. There are two ways of looking at things from here. On your side, you could say the Wings are up 2-0 and have yet to play their best hockey. I totally understand that opinion. From the Pens' fans side though, you could say that we've lost two close games and Crosby has yet to score a single goal. Imagine the difference if he can get a couple of those to get in there finally. So how the team has played does play into this a little. I don't think most of you are getting the point here, so I'm not going to waste much more cyber breath repeating. Once again though -- I'm not trying to take away from what Detroit's done so far, or go into that whole "deserve to win" thing which is a complete waste of time. I'm merely saying that things have gone differently from a competitive standpoint than last year, which makes for a more compelling series. If you can't understand that, I can't help you any more.

Osgood was beaten on those and out of position. In this case an orange traffic cone in front of the net would've provided the same defense. Only luck prevented those from going into the net.

No, what I said was, Applesauce was lucky in that the puck flew out of the air right to him -- regardless of the skill shown in controlling it down to the ice. Likewise, Staal just happened to have his back turned to him, or he blocks the shot. Likewise, Fleury had no idea where the puck was, kind of like what happened to Ward in the last series. A lot of things had to go right for Detroit on that play. And again, you seriously gonna tell me his shot last night was a routine save that should've been made? C'mon.

Yeah, you're right -- it's that Western Conference superiority that causes the puck to hit the post 3 times, 0.0005 inches from going inside the basket. I should've known. Pure defensive skill on the part of the Detroit players, showing what a real defensive team can do. And yeah, all they did was yank my reasoned post about Zetterberg, no biggie (rolls eyes).

His goal last night was no different than Saturday's -- the puck flew right to him somehow and he was able to control it down to the ice and shoot. That's as much luck as skill. But that's not even the main point. Are you seriously going to tell me the blind shot he put up should've been anything but a routine save? C'mon now. Again -- this time the Wings needed some breaks to win. Last year they didn't. My point proven again.

Nobody's looking for your validation. Not everyone is in denial about Detroit's excellence either, which you'd see if you read my original post. I disagree that it's about some "style" the Pens have that automatically prevents them from winning. If we look at the game yesterday for example, Detroit had one goal due to a Pens' players broken stick (after a successful power play kill) and one see-what-sticks toss up from a mile away that Fleury goofed miserably on. Would you argue with that at all? Meanwhile, the Pens hit the post 3 or 4 times, somehow Crosby's shot missed sliding inside the line AND ricocheting off Osgood from behind in the most incredible non-score I've seen in years. (What are the odds of that?) I'd say it was more about breaks, than style. That doesn't take away from what Detroit did, either. It's just to say, if not for a matter of half-inches, the Pens could've put up 4 or 5 goals last night. Woulda coulda or not -- that doesn't change the fact the game had a chance to go either way. See my point?

I covered this too already. Osgood's been lucky a lot the first two games, but he's also made some stellar stops. It's his ability to step up in big, not small games, that shows his excellence. Clutch is exactly right. I don't think that much-maligned Pens' defense has been too shabby, in fact I think they've done a pretty good job so far. It's Fleury who's allowed some awful goals, it's not Scuderi or Gill's fault. You admit yourself the Pens had plenty of chances -- again, that's the total opposite of last year, after two games. I'd say that's been pretty "different" then, wouldn't you?

Which you've proved of course by taking the time to post here... uh, lol.

The funny thing about that is, both things could happen. Last year the Pens outplayed Detroit one game out of six. So far this time it's been competitive 2 out of 2. If this keeps up, yeah the Pens could get swept and it would have been different from a competitive standpoint. Do you not seriously get this? I thought I was being pretty clear and simple. Maybe not.

Agree with everything you said. The point, though, is that this HAS been different, regardless of result. Which is pretty much what I predicted in the orginal post. I'd say I look pretty prophetic right now -- though of course I wish the results had been a bit different. I never said the Pens WOULD win, I said this time they had a shot. I don't think either game has proved me wrong.

Not the point at all. This is why debating with 90 percent of you here is about impossible.

What he said. Wish I'd read your post before I put up mine. Could've saved myself the trouble.

You tell me. Have the Pens been plain outskated the first 2 games, like last year? Did they not hit the post about 8 times the last two games, unlike last year when they couldn't buy a scoring chance? Would you not at least concede the Pens could've won either game, had they caught a couple breaks or bounces? Would you not agree that 2 of Detroit's goals last night were rather soft, and due more to poor goalie play than anything the Wings player did? Again, you tell me. By the way, nice (and predictable) job by some posters here to mistake what I said and act like I guaranteed a Pens victory. Way to dig it up as a rub in, and be so so wrong without knowing it. Go back and read my original post -- see if you disagree still.

Well then you are honestly mistaken. Likewise, I wonder if you know your hockey history. Some years ago if you recall, guys like Gretzky and Lemieux complained about the game becoming a clutching grabbing interference fest, that would stifle the showcase skills of the game's best scorers. That's one of the reasons the league made some rules changes. Both the spirit and letter of the rules state that no player should ever obstruct another player when the puck is not in play around him. The poster on the Pens board no doubt is referring to this. It's the top poster who is trying to work in the (wrong) idea that the Wings are only "clogging passing lanes" (which is really just code for "interference") when in fact the Pens poster never mentioned that idea. This kind of thing is exactly what Gretzky was talking about. Again, do you not really know this?

Wow. Just wow. Now we're outside the realm of just hockey, and into the world of marketing. Please allow me to elaborate as somebody who knows a bit about the subject. You know how you guys are always screaming and yelling about how the league plasters Crosby in your face? That's called marketing. The casual fan tunes in to see Crosby score goals, like the casual fan tuned in to see Michael Jordan stuff buckets. You with me so far? When Crosby gets shadowed clutched grabbed and impeded, that's good for your team, not so good for the ratings. The same "defensive style" you Wings fans boast about makes for winning hockey, but losing ratings. People outside Detroit just get bored with it. So I have to chuckle a little when you somehow actually try to blame Crosby for falling ratings. Talk about blaming the wrong culprit. Again, wow. Just wow.

So it's not enough that you win -- you also want to believe your team is always 100% squeaky clean and never commits a penalty. That's called the "good guys" syndrome. Not only that, you're missing the point -- the poster isn't talking about passing lanes, he's talking about obstructing the path of the oncoming players. Which supposedly was to be stopped with the new rules changes. You know, what Gretzky and those other old timers called "garage hockey."

Ah the conference thing again. Wouldn't you agree at least a little that the Wings have had all the luck both games, and they could've gone either way? I could understand this comment last year, when Detroit just plain outskated the Pens. But c'mon... how many times did the Pens hit the post last night? You wouldn't agree that things have at least been competitive? If not for breaks, the Pens could be up 2-0 right now.

You forgot "best puck-in-the-crease- covering, girlie-punch-throwing, dive-into-empty-net filling" player on earth. Testify!

I call it like it is. I give credit where credit's due, and blame where blame's due. I already said Malkin should be suspended. But so should Zetterberg. That's simply a matter of fairness. Do you seriously deny Zetterberg didn't throw that girlie punch BEFORE Malkin went at him? C'mon dude, take off the red glasses. As for chirping -- all I've heard here is whining about what the Pens get away with, and the "conspiracy" crying about Bettman favoring the Pens. As you can see he surely hasn't been the case, as you admit yourself. So please, spare me the hypocrisy about crying. This board has been a fountain of tear juice.

I wouldn't be so hard on Malkin considering the girlie punch that Zetterberg threw at the other Penguin before Malkin went at him. I've seen Girl Scouts toss better hooks. Maybe Zetterberg could use a Rainbow Girl for a trainer?

Like how Osgood sticked Staal to the head you mean? Malkin should be suspended a game. So should Zetterberg, who after all threw the first punch after Osgood dived. Why didn't Zetterberg also get tossed -- Malkin hit Zetterberg AFTER Zetterberg took a shot at another Penguin. Staal got whacked not once, but twice to the head. Osgood should be suspended for that first one, if we want to be fair. The NHL has been very NBA-like in its reffing so far.