sureWhyNot

It's one thing to say you don't like Barry Melrose (which a lot of people both here and in general don't) but for you, a virtual know nothing to call Barry Melrose "simple" in regards to his hockey knowledge is really quite gaudy. Then again in your little make believe world I am sure you most likely believe that you and your collection of Red Wing DVD's purchased off Amazon know more then a guy who played in 300 NHL games, countless AHL games, won both a Memorial Cup championship and Calder Cup while a head coach in juniors only to then jump to the NHL and lead a team to the Stanley Cup finals followed by years of commentary with ESPN - America's #1 sporting news channel. Sadly though, you don't know more then him, hell - I would be willing to bet you don't comprehend as much as 95% of the people on this message board. But ya know, whatever floats your boat. It always seems to be guys like you who downplay, disregard, and even go as far as mock the use of those pesky little things called "statistics". You buy in, and perpetuate the notion that the jerks who use stats simply "type in Google blah blah blah", etc., etc., etc. It strikes me as odd that if using stats to prove an argument is so easy -- or at least as easy as simpletons such as yourself claim it to be -- then why doesn't your brand of "expert" (you know, the real expert, not the Barry "1 Dimensional Expert" Melrose") ever use stats to back your ridiculous and at times, benevolent claims and/or statements? Of course statistics are not the end all be all of anything or argument -- there are too many outside factors in almost any situation, this one included, to solely base this or that on a number. You could never, at least in the context of debating a sports team base a decision on a stat, or a grouping of stats, they are simply to pliable to do so. But they do shine light on whatever it is being looked at and to deny this is just plain ignorant. When you look at those who argue against evolution in lieu of their theory -- that being God created all we know in seven days and seven nights -- they too love using the whole "those silly people and their pointless statistics are wrong and we know the real truth" methodology of debate. Well, It goes without saying that those people, and this is something I hope we can all agree on, are not exactly the most "convincing" folks in the world, and their anti-statistics jargon is well -- an attempt to back a theory that is quite frankly -- moronic.

Red Wings are considered "boring" by many because they play a basic "force-the-turnover-and-counterattack" set up, which if you are not a Red Wings fan is like watching paint dry -- minus the 3-7 seconds a brilliant Datsyuk provides. They also use a variation of the trap which can indeed kill any excitement in the sense that it limits movement in any offensively aggressive manner leading to a game of back and fourth in the neutral zone -- which then leads you to the infamous back and fourth between zones where the most excitement on the ice is the breakout. The system they use is definitely not what the Wings used under Bowman, but it is more similar then a lot of people give it credit to. The biggest differences lie in the altered to diminished use of the left wing lock (at least the way Bowman implemented it) as well as an increased focus on the trap in the mutant form (which is good because the text book trap is more boring then anything) which Babcock uses. Now I am a Red Wings fan, a die hard fan per se, so I don't care what they do as long as they keep winning. That said, if I were not a fan of the Wings I can easily see why watching them would be boring as s***. As for winning championships -- It's really quite simple -- YOU HAVE GOT TO BE ROCK SOLID DEFENSIVELY. Your defense is the end all be all for a team looking to hoist the cup over their heads. Steve Yzerman said it the best:

Good god you speak the truth. Amen to that!

Ha ha I know, my exact thoughts when I read that. Gotta sum it up as nothing more then "wishful thinking" I suppose.

Ya well unfortunately concussions are a small risk of being a NHL player. Same as numerous risks that accompany ones choice to become a fireman, policeman, bounty hunter, prison guard, zoologist, etc. Only difference is that in the NHL you are probably going to be making millions, where as other professions with risks (other then the NBA, MLB, NFL, etc.) you ain't making close to that. Life just sucks I suppose.

Ha ha, makes me thing back to AA Bantam hockey, and the rules surrounding fighting. Cute without a doubt -- but please -- this is the NHL.

God, the travel for Central division teams is rough when you look at it. That said, it is equally as tough on the opponents who have to make the same journey the other way. I do find it slightly bizarre that the Wings are in the western conference. I know it has been discussed a million time, and I am not trying to bring it up as a topic again -- but everytime I look at their opponents, compared to that of who we would face in the east I scratch my head. I think overall though, San Jose has the roughest travel in the NHL. I am actually pretty sure of it in terms of throughout the regular season.

The Maltby-Draper-Meech line looks scary. I am waiting in anticipation to see what these guys put together tonight -- Watch out, here we come!

I would probably take a pass on Penner, I seriously do not see the need to bring in another third liner seeing as though we have a plethora of them chomping at the bits in Grand Rapids. The ideal situation, at least in my opinion, is to sign Hossa, let Franzen walk, re-up Hudler, and take any funds remaining and literally throw it at a goatender.

Who knows -- I would hope they spend the majority of their time hoping and praying that Osgood morphs into something half decent the night before the playoffs start. I know that has been the go to of so many around here, and hopefully, with a stroke of good luck, it pays off. But to work, I do think it will take as many people as possible, so if I were Holland I would enact a new and mandatory 15 minute "pray Ozzie magically becomes half decent overnight" session both before and after each practice and game. *God knows I am crossing my fingers and saying my prayers.*

I can honestly say you are the first person whose comments online, in any form and on any website/forum/platform/etc have made me throw up in my mouth just a little. I don't know if it's your tone, or just your blinding ignorance towards hockey and this team in general. Whatever it is makes me sick. Anyone who is trying to seriously debate whether Homer or Downey should be in the lineup, well, they are an idiot as well. Of course the answer is Homer. However there is a few other guys whose spot Downey should have and deserves. That said, looking at the lineup we will be going with it shouldn't be more then a couple games until someone gets hurt - thus freeing up another spot. So we might see Downey again this season -- but who knows.

Wasn't that the game he scored in as well?

Ha ha wow -- you are quite simply put -- Ignorant. Either that or you are just being obnoxious via statements that make no sense to either side of the debate being had. If we were to use your logic I shudder to think about what you would want done with Osgood -- I mean that is seeing as though you are equating one individual player with the teams record, over the span of 4 games. The only difference in the two blowouts (8-0 and then 8-2) was that when Downey was in the lineup we scored and had an even +/-, while nearly 2/3 of the team was in the negative. He had 2 points (a goal and an assist) in 4 games with the Wings making his PPG average .50 per game while only seeing an average of 5 minutes and 12 seconds of ice time a game. So, in an effort to teach your backwards thinking ass a little something I will break it down for you like this: * In those 4 games Downey was even (0) in regards to +/-. Now this is not big in itself, but when you look at the +/1 of the guys on his line -- well it says something. * Again he had 2 points in 4 games making him a .50 point per game player. Spin it any way you want but if you can get this out of a 4th liner seeing 5 minutes a game I am happy. * Downey has 11 recorded hits in 4 games. By using that ratio in comparison to the rest of the team he would be 3rd behind Stuart and Lilja -- guys that see 14+ minutes of ice a night, where as Downey see's 5. * His .50 points per game makes him tied with the likes of Fillipula, and ahead of Lebda (.33), Kopecky (.27), Meech (.22), Maltby (.18), and Helm (.06) -- Again, you have to remember the guy only gets 5 minutes a night. * Since returning for this last 3 game stint with the Wings Aaron Downey's linemates (Kopecky and Draper) have come alive in a way. Draper has put up 2 goals and an assist as well as a +4 in the 3 games paired with Downey. Prior to the last 3 games with Downey, Draper had 5 goals on the season and was a -12. Kopecky, who at a minimum had been lethargic managed to rack up 1 goal and 3 assists in the time span paired with Downey as well as a +4 in that same 3 game stretch. I mean to argue Downey is worthless defies logic. Am I claiming he is an offensive threat? No not really, but the evidence is right in front of your eyes, and while not offensively gifted he a) chips in a little bit on the scoreboard, and b) makes the guys he's playing with better. On top of all this he is a HW enforcer that adds a certain snarl to this team -- a snarl that is all but nonexistent when he is absent. Should he replace any of the top 9 guys -- HELL NO, that would be crazy. Is he worthy of the top 12 -- well, the numbers say he is, and numbers don't lie. Something also needs to be said about the fact he is 4 for 4 in fan player of the game voting, with the last 2 games shattering records with the numbers of votes cast. While some here may feel as though they are above the hockey fray and see something no one else does -- therefore deeming Downey "worthless", and "bringing nothing to the table" -- the reality of the situation is that the overwhelming majoroity or Wings fan LOVE the guy in a way they haven't loved a player of his stature in long time. No onther player has been rewarded the player of the game (as voted on by the fans) 4 times in a row (or in Downey's case, 100% of the time he has been in the lineup.) Will he be in the playoff lineup? Probably not, and I am not even sure he should be -- unless that is a series starts looking like it may get ugly. But with that said there is absolutely no reason what so ever -- NONE -- that he should not be in the lineup night in and night out in the reg. season.

What the f*** would it take foryou ignorant folks to realize Osgood is a HUGE problem -- HUGE. Note I said HUGE and not ONLY. He is 40th of 42 among NHL goalies in terms of GAA He is DEAD LAST (42nd) among NHL goalies in terms of SV% In the two BLOWOUTS he has given up 11 goals while Conklin has allowed 5. BOTH are horrendous numbers - ONE IS WORSE. You sir need to open your ******* eyes.

You are an absolute, and incrediblly ignorant person when it comes to hockey, and the Red Wings in particular. Do you realize your "let's just hope Osgood will morph into a good goalie in the playoffs" mentality is the equivalent to something a third grader would use. I am sorry but after tonight, and reading your obnoxious and offending (yes, that's how stupid they are) arguments I had to say something. Lastly you should be careful who you ask "did you watch hockey last year" when you have either a) watched the Red Wings (not hockey in general, JUST the Red Wings) for 2-3 years or b) Don't watch much hockey (RW included) what so ever.

You would this so wouldn't you. They won't - they tend to use the rationale of a ******* retard when arguing against Downey. The fact he has a goal and assist as well as a epic heavyweight scrap against St. Louis resident tough guy Cam Jannsen on top of being one of 5 guys not with a negative (-) +/- tonight. But the fact he was even tonight and not a negative will be due to his lack of minutes, yet his 2 points in 3 games will be a fluke. I can see it now. 4 games 4 ******* fan "player of the game votes for #44 Aaron Downey, tongiht with 64% of the total vote. It's a ******* joke that Osgreat gets coddled like an injured puppy around here and Downey is tagged as "useless" but what can you do -- Assholes and morons exist everywhere, even Red Wing message boards.

MRSandMan! MrSandMan! MrSandMan! I hear what you are saying and you are sooooooo right. I am so sick of people bashing Osgreat. Obviously a "fairweather'er" like the rest of Ozzie haters. Blame goes to any one or all of the following: a) The defense as a whole. b) Rafalski specifically -- forget his 51 points and +15 c) Downey who has 2 points in 3 games. d) The lack of Leino and Helm -- Would have never happened. Wait, were they in the lineup for the Nash. massacre? e) Bad bounces -- So unfair. f) Cup Hangover -- It's real, it exists, and no 6 months and more then 2/3 into the season is the usual length of this. g) Elements we don't know about, but definitely exist -- Obviously. h.) Conkllin i.) McCrimmon The fact Conklin is 7th in GAA and 15th is SV% and Osgreat is 39th in GAA and dead last aka 40th in SV% means nothing. All these silly "Ozzie Bashers" aka fairweather fans are just stupid, idiots.

SHORELINE! SHORELINE! SHORELINE! I hear what you are saying and you are sooooooo right. I am so sick of people bashing Osgreat. Obviously a "fairweather'er" like the rest of Ozzie haters. Blame goes to any one or all of the following: a) The defense as a whole. b) Rafalski specifically -- forget his 51 points and +15 c) Downey who has 2 points in 3 games. d) The lack of Leino and Helm -- Would have never happened. Wait, were they in the lineup for the Nash. massacre? e) Bad bounces -- So unfair. f) Cup Hangover -- It's real, it exists, and no 6 months and more then 2/3 into the season is the usual length of this. g) Elements we don't know about, but definitely exist -- Obviously. h.) Conkllin i.) McCrimmon The fact Conklin is 7th in GAA and 15th is SV% and Osgreat is 39th in GAA and dead last aka 40th in SV% means nothing. All these silly "Ozzie Bashers" aka fairweather fans are just stupid, idiots.

You have to realize "Eva" not only shouldn't be using the terms rationale and logic, I really don't think he knows what they mean. Has Conklin let in bad goals? f*** yes. But the "Osgood bashing" probably has more to do with this: GAA Conklin - 8th among all goalies with 20 or more games with a 2.38 GAA Osgood - 4th from last among all goalies with 20 or more games (39th to be exact) with a 3.25 GAA SV% Conklin - 15 among all goalies with 20 or more games with a .914 Osgood - DEAD LAST (40th to be exact) among all NHL goalies with 20 or more games with a .883 Now that may -- I am not sure -- be why there is a tendency for people to criticize Ozzie more so then they do Conklin. But what do I know anyways.

WHAT?!?! Are you saying Ozzie's 3.16 (and who knows after tonights 16 for 23 or .695) GAA and his .833 SV% is his fault???? Obviously a "fairweather'er" like the rest of Ozzie haters. Blame goes to any one or all of the following: a) The defense as a whole. b) Rafalski specifically -- forget his 51 points and +15 c) Downey who has 2 points in 3 games. d) The lack of Leino and Helm -- Would have never happened. Wait, were they in the lineup for the Nash. massacre? e) Bad bounces -- So unfair. f) Cup Hangover -- It's real, it exists, and no 6 months and more then 2/3 into the season is the usual length of this. g) Elements we don't know about, but definitely exist -- Obviously. h.) Conkllin

Weird s*** happens subconsiously to a team who has absolutely zero confidence in their goaltender. The same can be said with an offensive line and a quarterback. If they don't like, respect or trust him -- well, god help him.

Only fair weather fans blame Ozzie. Real Red Wings fans know that it isn't his fault.

Me too! They just don't get it none of this is Ozzie's fault. How could it be? He won Stanley Cups in the past -- it's obviously Rafalski's (51 points and a +15), Downey's (stupid ass getting a goal and an assist in 2 games), the defense all together, and everything else. LEAVE OZZIE ALONE.

I called it. SO NOT HIS FAULT!

The next goal is soooooooooo not Ozzie's fault.