Broken 16

Well... when I say a solid plugger with a decent shot and hands, that's was my assessment when compared to the Wings above him on the depth chart. No doubt he always had second line skill. He was drafted fairly early IIRC. Mainly I'm impressed with how he shifts to open ice and finds little pockets in the offensive zone a'la sniper style. I don't know if we ever really had a chance to see that from him consistently last season. His confidence is continuing to build. It's a beautiful thing.

Not that I ever had anything against Crosby in the first place, beyond his occasional DBery and diving, but he just went up a few notches in my book.

Ahhhh... Fisch. Agreed. I'm still totally bummed on that one. If I remember correctly, he really started coming around once he got paired with Chelios. I always hated Chelios, but I'll always appreciate the work he put into training Jiri. You could tell Chelios was proud of him. Not sure I agree with your assessment of Eaves though. Beginning of the season, I was with you and thought he was just s plugger with decent hands and a decent shot. He's been showing something recently though and if he can continue to build on that, I could see him being another Cleary type. He just needs Cleary's ethic. Seems like he may have it. Like most things though, time will tell on him. Looks like he's going to have plenty of opportunities this season to prove himself. Who knows... Granted, but how easily can they fill his role when they have to not only pay a new salary, but eat Holmstrom's? I guess you could feasibly still attain an adequate replacement but it seems like it would be a lot more beneficial on many levels to just let him play out his contract. I mean, pre-salary cap, sure, but...

So paying for an empty locker is ok with you?

God I hate Capgeek posts. They remind me that Rafalski is only making 200k less than Lidstrom...

As if Holmstrom is ever going to 'decide' to retire. He'll be in front of the net in a wheelchair if the Wings let him.

I find it more than mildly disturbing that this thread hasn't left the top 5 on this page. Brad Stuart's broken jaw thread will apparently be buried on page two before Crosby's mild concussion thread. Shame on you LGW. Edit... too late... Stewie's thread is already on page two...

Lol... "What about him! What about him!" Now Rivalred... you stop that! Feel better? Sorry if I think its really stupid to bring up Wayne Gretzky and compare him to post-lock out shut-down players. Your comparison is awful. Messier? That guy was a shut down forward when clutch-grab-throw people on the ice was encouraged. May as well talk about Gordie Howe.

Funny, considering you haven't cited a single player that you think is a better two-way forward other than Datsyuk. I guess thread titles mean nothing. I'm not modding, I would just like to read a discussion about two-way players and not why you would take Gretz over Messier. How about you not derail threads for attention. Start a 'Why two-way players are overrated' thread if you have a hair across your ass about it.

Except we're not comparing players "in general"... we're comparing two-way players. How about making a new thread for your crusade.

One dimensional superstars are a completely different animal. Zetterberg will never be that guy. You're not putting things into perspective, you're skewing the perspective to make a point about one-dimensional players for some reason. It's like derailing a scoring title thread by citing 2-way players that make a bigger impact on their team.

So you are making a point about one-dimensional players in a two-way player thread? Again, you're losing me.

So playoff success all of the sudden means nothing when evaluating a player? Wow... that's a switch. All I said is that I'm glad you aren't GM because there aren't many, if any, other players I would replace with Zetterberg at the present moment. Total shut-down package that is averaging 2+ shots a game (I think) this season? Not even factoring in his point production since Datsyuk went down? I don't get it, honestly. But we are entitled to our opinion.

Which is why I thank god you aren't the GM. Hank is pure money in the playoffs, as you well know.

Ya... did you see him sucking wind on the bench last game? He's into it and playing hard as I've seen him play. You make a good point with the roster and how we are set. I just get cold sweats when I think of dealing a big, mobile, puck moving defensemen. They are so hard to come by. You can see what my weakness would be if I were a GM.

Ya. That's my biggest fear with Kindl. That he's gonna be another Krupp. Not that Krupp was horrible (away from the Wings), he just drove me nuts with all that size and nothing to do with it.

Ewwwwwww... change the title. I think you dragged some HF smell over here with this thread. Although, my favorite assessment was the guy that said that Crosby is the best player in the league, and plays 2-way hockey... so therefore, he is the best two-way player in the NHL. Greatest logic ever.

Tatar can overcome...

I hear ya. I guess I figure that if the Wings can turn Ericsson, who started as a forward as you know, into a good, solid NHL dman, they should be able to turn Kindl into Bobby Orr.

Personally, I'm not quite ready to give up on Kindl yet. Not by a long shot. The kid has great vision and seems to be able to see the lanes real well. He hasn't been given a true opportunity to adjust and get comfortable. A few games here and there isn't enough. Can't ship him until he see's regular shifts for a decent stretch imo. Pretty much agree with all other assessments though.

It's been made abundantly clear by Babcock that he expects different things from different players. Bert is expected to be a net presence, as per Babcock: "If he doesn't go to the net, he won't be playing with those guys" Yet, you seemingly expect Bert to ignore his coach and play the way you want him and expect him to play. What you want from him is not what Babs wants. He wants Bert to be a hard body to move in front of the net and hustle back on the backcheck. That's what he's been doing all season long. In fact, his penalty last night was a result of him backchecking. Old school Bert would have still been pushing someone around in front of the net. It's pretty s***ty to place Flips expectations onto Bert's shoulders and then slam him when he can't possibly live up to them.

Me either.

The injuries are forcing the Wings to play a different style. Bert can't carry a line. That's not what he is paid to do. Flip on the other hand.... Don't get me wrong. I like Flip and don't want to see him gone. I love what he brings. I just don't understand why you have to slam a guy who is doing more than asked. Why did he even come into it?

First off... your comparing a center to a winger. They each have very different responsibilities and roles. Second, you're comparing a youngster to an old dude. Third, your comparing players that have different salaries. And fourth... your comparison sucks. They each are expected to bring different things to the table. Bert is more than bringing his and Flip is barely bringing his.

It was just one of those harmless little hooks that every player does, it was just the timing and the slight twist of his wrists that screwed him. In the neutral zone, backchecking on a rush the Av's pulled off in transition. Refs love calling that s***. Not saying it wasn't weak, cuz it was. But Bert knows they are gonna call him on that every time.