Broken 16

A head puncher that has had some nice clutch goals in his career. This will be interesting. I'm glad the Wings are giving him a go.

Gotcha. So it's all about retribution. Stanley Cup checklist: Strong system with players that buy into it... check Solid goaltending... check Defensive minded players that are quick in transition... check Puck lugging defensmen with a great first pass... check Gritty players that are capable of playing the body to cause turnovers... check Open ice hitters on defense... check Strong power play... check Strong penalty kill... err Players that seek retribution for cheapshots on team mates... f***! You're right, we're doomed.

He fulfills his part of the contract (<---Key word). Just because his best isn't good enough on most nights doesn't mean he should be cast aside like a piece of trash. That loyalty that obviously frustrates you is one of the foundations of this team. Love it or leave it.

Ok... So Datsyuk isn't a gritty player? Dude plays the body more than anybody on the team. Just because blood isn't drawn doesn't make it any less gritty.

If your definition of grit is an overhand right, then no we don't have any grit. Hate to break it to you, but that's not grit. Grit is players that hit to make a play, muck in the corners, go into dirty areas, and make open ice hits without compromising defensive responsibility and the Wings have plenty of those.

Got it... Holland is lazy and he sucks. (pretty sure I owe somebody a nickel for saying that) What team do you watch? Many Wings, including their two best forwards are gritty. The Wings have plenty of gritty players. Enough for Pronger himself to say that the Wings team toughness is vastly underrated. What we don't have is someone who will go out and beat someone up and take a fighting major. This thread is not about grit. It's about an enforcer (read the title).

First off, I never said anything about a tailspin. Ever. Second, of course rumors were ripe. They were the only players that would agree to a one year deal for 1.something. Learn to live with Maltby for one more season. He's earned it. He deserves to be able to play his contract out despite your desire to just 'cut him'. What exactly do you propose they do with Maltby? Force him to quit. Sit him in the press box after he has contributed to every Cup the Wings have won in the past 12 years? This isn't a fantasy team.

Kopecky? See, you are trapped in the past. I knew it. Heh. So what do you think is the most realistic scenario? A) Holland and Co. would love to have a tough guy to help protect their players but they can't find one with the proper price/skillset/contract length/etc. B) Holland and Co. hate fighters and refuse to employ them. Believe me, I'm sure Holland would love to have a top hat that he can pull perfect players from.

How do you know that Holland didn't make a hard push for those guys? You keep talking like you are a fly on Hollands wall. Eaves, Williams and Bert are nothing more than a stop-dead measure until next season. How much more obvious could this be? This is the Detroit equivalent of a rebuilding season, try and enjoy it.

Like I said to GMR, I just think you are actually bored watching a perennial winner hit the ice season after season. In a perfect world, sure, Scenario C sounds good. Unfortunately, the world and the league are far from perfect. Something has to give in the salary cap era. Unfortunately for you and a few others, the Wings aren't putting a premium on slugs that are good at punching people in the face.

In all honesty, I think that you are so spoiled by the dominance of this team that you are actually bored by it. The grittiest, nastiest team in the past 10 years has been the Ducks and they've won one Cup by BARELY squeaking by the Wings. How many 'enforcers' are out of a job because they can't crack a teams depth chart? Jesus... The Yotes even dumped Downey. Every team, even the Wings, are walking a razors edge with what kind of roster they carry. Concessions have to be made somewhere. The Wings have decided that skill, puck possession, face-offs and passing are the premium. They are obviously skimping on enforcers and goaltending. I'm sure they would love to have a team full of gritty, skilled, tough, fast, two way players but they are shackled by reality. Hopefully, once some of the slug contracts expire we can pick up a handful of Moens to compliment the Z's and D's. Until then, try and enjoy your teams road to another playoff appearance for one more season.

Scenario A- Player takes liberties against an opponents star player and gets away scott free. Result- Cheapshot delivered. Scenario B- Player takes liberties against an opponents star player and gets beat up by a tough guy. Result- Cheapshot delivered, with a high probability of the enforcer being hit with an instigator penalty for retaliation. Great plan... especially against our PK. Thanks, but no thanks. You guys need to move on from the 90's.

I have no clue wether you or GMR or F.Mike have ever played a single shift of hockey, but NOBODY I have ever played with was ever afraid to take a few punches in order to get something done. This presumption that some random NHL'er is gonna see highlights of some Red Wing beating someone up on Sportscenter and decide that they better not not mess with the Wings is hilarious.

Agitators LOVE pissing people off. Even enforcers. That's what they do. If you think that the presence of some pseudo enforcer like Moen or Grier is going to make them think twice... guess again. I can hear it now: Coach: Hey, get in there and stir things up. Player: No way! Moen is out there! Hehe. Funny. Use up a precious roster spot for a "future possibility"? Don't quit your day job.

Agreeing that Holland may be afraid to sign gritty players makes you look dumb. Sorry. We all know that next season will be a big year contract wise. Is it really that hard to grasp that Holland and Co. are probably waiting to see how the contracts shake out before committing to multi-year deals for limited players? Oh yea... Moen is kicking ass two games in. Maybe we should dump Datsyuk and get him while we can. Lol.

It's not spot on because he doesn't know s*** about anything Holland does or who he talks to. Holland made it pretty clear that he wasn't handing out multi-year deals to 4th line players. I know that Red Wing fans love to pretend that every player in the league is just clamoring to be on the Wings and will agree to any deal Holland throws at them just for the sake of being here. There is a reason why Moen isn't here and neither you nor GMR have an inkling of a clue as to why. Jesus... get over it already.

Actually, I think Carman was talking about the rumors back when he played for Vancouver. Either way, it would have been awesome to see him line up with Fedorov.

Not one bit. It had more to do with him looking like this:

I'm chill. The whole basis of the thread is that they would have been on the same team (assuming the OP's trade went through). I'm just not convinced that the presence of Gretzky would have helped Yzerman. I know the the knee jerk reaction is: Of course he would have helped... he was the Great One! But I dunno. I think it may have actually stunted Yzerman in the long run. Or I'm just a Gretzky hater...

I could have easily went my entire life without ever seeing that image. May god have mercy on your soul.

Did we come close? Because I remember whispers and hopes, but I didn't know we were close.

Right... because that's JUST LIKE playing entire NHL seasons.

A lot of great lines have had 2 skill guys and an "energy guy". Did I imagine Helm playing keep away from 3 guys deep in the offensive zone on a penalty kill for about 30 seconds on his way to the front of the net for a shot last season? I must have been imagining the national play-by-play guys gushing over Helm almost every time he was on the ice. I hate the way some of you label a player. You act as if you know first hand what Helm is capable of. The only person who knows what he is capable of and what he is willing to do to achieve it is Helm... get off it already.

For some reason I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of having Yzerman AND Gretzky on the same team. Either way, I'm glad it didn't happen. I always admired Gretzky's skill... but never really cared for him as a person. I'm glad he didn't get a chance to influence Stevie.

I would LOVE to see Helm play on the first line with those guys. I think it would be ridiculously good. Throw Helm up there to dig pucks loose and crash around the net? Yes... PLEASE.