Carman

And Franzen isn't benefiting from playing on the best PP unit in the playoffs? Not to mention a couple good centers himself. Oh yeah, I forgot injuries never get progressively worse the longer they go on while playing a physical sport. And yes Hossa was better in practically every statistical category that playoffs than Franzen that to me is completely outplaying another player.

Hossa had a torn rotator cuff in the playoffs last year, it happens. If you think Hossa is going to be anything less than a PPG performer in the playoffs when healthy you are going to be surely surprised. I base that Hossa is a better defensive player by the decision of Babcock to give him 21 minutes of PK time compared to 7 minutes for Franzen. Also Hossa had more hits then Franzen did. If you can't compare a player's past then what the use of comparing them at all? Hopefully they are both healthy next season and we can continue the discussion then.

While Franzen is still waiting for a breakout season Hossa has 9 regular season's with 60+ points. And the regular season is important whether you think it is or not. Hossa also played better defensive hockey in the playoffs than Franzen, there is a reason one winger was chosen over the other to play more on the PK. Franzen had one playoffs that he played better than Hossa, a playoffs in which Hossa had a torn rotator cuff. I find it unbelievable that in a non-cap world would would take Franzen over Hossa. Last year's playoffs are comparing a hurt Hossa to a fairly healthy Franzen. You don't even mention the playoffs before where Hossa completely outplayed Franzen.

Ok we both agree Franzen is a better choice for the Red Wing's current situation. I was referring to the whole "Hossa is a choke" deal. You somehow found a way to try and compare Hossa's 42 points and Franzen's 62 points completely disregarding adding the games played with it. That's a pretty unfair way to illustrate your point, and is why I said you don't understand what you were talking about. Probably a little harsh to say that I'm sorry. Franzen has yet to have a regular season in his career that is better than Hossa's third* season in the league. That to me is pretty telling. Not to mention Hossa played on the PK which for a primary goal scoring winger is pretty evident of how much a coach trusts in his defensive game. Franzen had a very good two playoffs with goal scoring, that's it. Hossa has a much broader table to draw from to see what kind of player he is and is proven to be, that's all I'm trying to get across.

I'm not trying to insinuate anything, but I think it is odd Babcock keeps Holmstrom with Datsyuk for this long. It's pretty clear that Datsyuk isn't playing to his potential and could use a little jump start and I would be interested to see how he plays with new linemates.

My fault being wrong about saying people are happy he is gone, I must have thought about another thread where something like that was said. Anyways of course Hossa gets paid more than Franzen. He is a better player and is much more complete than Franzen. Franzen has 51 points in 62 playoff games. Hossa has 42 points in 46 playoff games since lock out. Clearly you don't understand what you are talking about. No where am I saying we should of kept Hossa, I'm just saying he is a much better player than Franzen. And you are saying I'm jumping on a bandwagon? Your entitled to your opinion, but I've been on the Hossa "band wagon" since seeing him play when I was 10 years old in Portland playing in the WHL. So please spare me the lecture of being a "bandwagoner".

Nah, we couldn't afford Hossa. I understand that, I just think it was great to see a winger of his caliber play for the Wing's in only for a season. I just disagree with the few posters that are happy that Hossa is gone, and blasted him for "not trying" last year, call him a perennial playoff choker, and actually say Franzen is a better player is just ridiculous and makes this board look like even bigger blatant homers even more then we are. That's all, not saying Holland is stupid for not resigning him or anything like that.

Then why compare them at all? Hossa has already proved to be a top 3 winger in the NHL, Franzen hopes to become one. To say that Hossa is even comparable to Franzen is borderline, but to actually believe Franzen is better is just plain asinine. Players may develop at different rates, and it's is pretty likely Franzen hasn't reach his potential. But it shouldn't be passed over that when Franzen was scoring 6 points in 37 games in the SEL, Hossa was scoring 80 in 80 with 45 goals in the NHL. And they are the same age. It is pretty clear that Hossa is a much better Winger, I cannot see the argument for anything else.

Friday: New Jersey @ Boston Buffalo @ Philadelphia Pittsburgh @ NY Islanders Colorado @ Minnesota Chicago @ Anaheim Atlanta @ Carolina Calgary @ Detroit NY Rangers @ Tampa Bay Toronto @ Florida St Louis @ Nashville Dallas @ Phoenix San Jose @ Edmonton Saturday: NY Islanders @ New Jersey Ottawa @ Boston Carolina @ Buffalo Washington @ Montreal Philadelphia @ Atlanta Calgary @ Columbus NY Rangers @ Pittsburgh Detroit @ St Louis Florida @ Nashville Tampa Bay @ Dallas Minnesota @ Colorado Edmonton @ Vancouver Chicago @ Los Angeles Sunday: Phoenix @ Anaheim San Jose @ Vancouver

Someone takes Don Cherry too seriously.

Playoff flop? What the hell are you talking about? Hossa is the same age and has comparable stats with 25 more games played than Franzen in the playoffs. Not to mention he is much more physical and can actually play on the PK. There is no way Franzen is better than Hossa. Salary included. Hossa almost has more points in one season than Franzen has in his whole career... Your blatant homerism is hilarious, Franzen is great, but Hossa that much better.

Agreed.

There is a fine line between not being sold on the Blackhawks being a cup contender until they get there, and then being an absolute homer and think they are going to choke. They will win the central this year, and will contend for the President's trophy. Btw Hossa is a very good playoff performer and has yet to play in a situation that he hasn't excelled, so I have a feeling he'll do just fine on the Hawks. That said I won't say they are a Stanley Cup contender until I see how they play as a unit, the talent is there and the chemistry is probably going to be there, but they will probably need a tough loss in the playoffs to really understand the experience and what it takes. Just my 20 cents.

No, but I would trade Datsyuk if the deal was right.

Bertuzzi has never had more than 15 goals since his back injury. He should not be relied to be a sniper. He is just the closest thing we have to one right now and therefore is the only option Babcock has. Bertuzzi is getting shots to the net, 2nd on the team in shots, which is why I'm hard on Holmstrom because Bert was getting at least some pucks around the net and Holmstrom wasn't finishing. But anyways I agree it's not just about those 2 players, everywhere on the Wing's need to bear down on the shots and keep working at it. We are getting our opportunities, so it could be worse for the Wing's right now.

What that is a legitimate concern of mine. Why would they leave off a statisic category as vital as Faceoffs for a centermen? It's not like I came in the thread posting Crosby with a Hart and a Cup saying he is the best. Geez...

Bertuzzi is 4th in terms of foward hits on the team. He is laying the body, and making chances ableit he does make bad decisions with the puck and isn't playing well himself(but that happens when you have a 3rd liner playing trying to fill a role beyond his capabliities). Homer's role is much more important to the team than Bertuzzi is right now. Homer is playing with the 2 best players on the team and is not producing lately. I believe this team is much better off if Holmstrom plays to his potential rather than if Bertuzzi plays to his. That's all I'm saying, obviously I'd hope both of them start playing better.

Bertuzzi is a secondary scorer on the second PP as is normally a 3rd liner if it wasn't for injuries, Holmstrom is a primary scorer on the first PP. Sorry I expect Holmstrom to outplay Bertuzzi. Which is something he hasn't done on this stretch of bad hockey by the Wing's.. Homer played great the first couple weeks of the season, and I'm not expecting that same production. But I'm expecting something from him the past 6 games.

I'm singling out Homer because I hold him to a higher standard. He has played most of the game with Zetterberg-Datsyuk, I just cannot find excuses for him. He has been struggling the past 6 games, and as one of our only proven goalscorers he needs to snap out of it and help carry this team right now. If he isn't scoring, he isn't doing anything else.

Exactly, but for what he is getting paid? Bertuzzi is creating more than him and is still the scapegoat. I'm just trying to get the mindset on the whole "let's blame Bertuzzi for being shutout" idea.

Oh please, Bertuzzi is one of the only people actually skating out there. He lost an edge, it happens. How long is Holmstrom going to keep being invisible for? Going on 6 games now, we need him to pick up his game.

Haha Bert going for a headshot on Pavalec. At least he is hitting the net now!

Yep, boarding call on a late check from behind. On a closer look Kaleta turned into the boards so it wasn't the correct call, but those things happen when you play the game like Ovechkin does.

Haha I was just about to post the same thing! Atleast we are getting some practice on the PK tonight.

At least it was Kozlov.... Anyone else surprised by his career numbers?