Carman

Inconsistent wings are inconsistent. Who knows if our scoring and defense shows up each night. If it does we can be a really good team, but man they really can't grit out a victory when they aren't playing well. Not many positives tonight, Nyquist finally got a goal, hopefully that can boost his confidence. Other then that there was nothing good about this game, way too many defensive breakdowns. Kronwall has to stay out of the box, I don't care if he doesn't decimate anyone it's just too hard in today's game to risk it, it sucks but any one of his patented hits will draw a call even if it's 100%(not saying this one was), he's more value when he is on the ice moving the puck. He has the 3rd most minor penalties in the entire league, you can't be a number 1 guy when you are spending that much time putting your team on the penalty kill. Our best players need to produce, I don't care who you are playing with, our main guys Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Brunner, and Filpulla need to do something each night if we are going to win the game. Have to fix the special teams our powerplay needs to be better. Our first powerplay has around 44 points, the rest of the team has a combined 11 points, we need to be able to balance that out and find that second powerplay unit.

Ah wasn't referring to you, just a couple posts in the nyquist recalled thread. I'm pretty disappointed in Smith, but he's just in his first full season I wouldn't trade him right now unless it was for a younger more proven defenseman.

Yeah trade the Nyquist guy, his game can't translate to the NHL. Come on, Nyquist will be awesome. What a finish and goal by the kid. I'm excited for his future.

And that's why Kronwall doesn't try to hit anymore.

Man this sucks, if it's serious he should just shut it down for the year, he's too important for this to become something he battles his entire career. Back injuries are brutal though, they really just disappear and reappear all the time.

I want Hagelin please. Torts is probably due for a head coaching change soon, I can see him not being able to bounce a team back after a disappointing year. Really good coach though, I like him.

They re-signed him 8 or so months ago. I was thinking the same thing

Difference is bad games for Franzen is effort based, and that to me is very hard to comprehend. I don't mind if he goes into slumps, I do mind when he isn't trying to make a difference in other ways of the game. He can be more physical, he can be better in the corners, he can drop the gloves for teammates, but he doesn't do it all the time. I watch more than just score sheets, and that's why I'm disappointed in Franzen, and not Brunner, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Abdelkader who ever else goes on a slump, because you don't hear Babcock calling them out on not coming to the rink every night.

Hockey pants are a pain in the ass to break in. I'm not surprised they aren't wearing new pants.

The whole lazy criticism is founded on his own coach saying that he doesn't bring his best game to the ice each and every night. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/11/red_wings_mike_babcock_wants_j.html How can anyone argue this? Now I disagree with the whole get rid of Franzen at whatever cost crowd. I think he's a valuable member of the team, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't expect more effort from him. I try to be fair with every player, but Franzen is a player that could be so much better, and it's frustrating to watch him some nights.

He's not been too bad lately, I've seen him be much worse. But he's had such a long history of laziness that it's hard to be given the break. Especially compared to players such as Zetterberg.

Probably has something to do with Zetterberg actually doing other important things for the team. Franzen would be cut some slack if he exhibited 50% of the effort Zetterberg does.

Well I'm going to start drinking early.

Hey now Quincey has more goals than Drew Doughty, Goligoski, Robidas, Hainsey, Morris, Sedienberg, Gleason, Orpik, Stuart, Larsson, Volchenkov, Smid, Fowler Honestly there are many good defenseman that aren't scoring points. Boychuk, Alzner, Bogosain(was injured but still 16 games), Klesa, Smid, Myers, Coburn etc.are all within .08 PPG of Quincey Not making excuses, Quincey needs to produce for the price we paid for him, and his contract. But just because he isn't scoring doesn't mean he isn't helping the team.

I've felt like Brunner has played fine. He's a great skater and is something I still see him doing. I don't know why this laziness tag is starting to get thrown around for. He's not that bad in the corners, obviously it's not a strength yet, but the effort is there. He'll be fine, just in a slump goal scoring wise like the rest of the team, but his actually play hasn't changed a whole lot from what I've seen.

Bad goal for Howard, but man Ericsson and Kronwall were soft, how do you let a guy take a shot from the hash marks? Howard has to have that on the road though.

Nice job filpulla he's been our best player tonight good to see him get one. I thought we played well this period as a whole.

Let's see last year Samuelsson had 13 powerplay points in 54 games for .24 per game Lidstrom had 17 points in 70 games for .24 per game. Interesting, it looks like by all accounts that he does produce on the powerplay.

HE'S PLAYED 3 GAMES AND A TOTAL OF 8 MINUTES ON THE POWERPLAY How is this criticism even happening, I understand if he's had the most powerplay time on the team or something, but he hasn't even had the opportunity to fail yet.

Yeah, but mostly comparing them just on scoring. Peca was miles ahead defensively for sure and a better overall player. But offensively they are pretty equal.

Yeah why would we want a Peca, Turcotte, or Afinogenov in our line up. Samuelsson is in this company, he's a very good secondary scorer, he's good defensively, his hate here is completely unjustified and just embarrassing now. Injuries suck, but Samuelsson would help this team tremendously, and for anyone that thinks we are better off without him know absolutely nothing about hockey, or Samuelsson slept with their family member. /rant off not trying to single anyone out, but it just seems like everybody is against him, and I can't for the life of me rationalize it. He put up the same numbers last season playing for Florida as Latendresse, Van Riemsdyk, Derek Roy, Tyler Kennedy, Okopso, Hornqvist, Downie, Bertuzzi, Turris, Ott, Hemsky, Setoguchi, Koivu and Gagne. But you're right, his production isn't needed.

I don't really like this and I'm a huge Nyquist guy. Tatar provides the offensive we've been sorely lacking. Fact is with this move Holland/Babcck are not putting the best players on the team. I hope it's just a short term move, before a bigger move, but preemptive tips of the hand don't happen like that. Puzzling, but I hope this is just a move to see who they are going to waive when Sammy/Filp/Bert and Helm get back.

They really don't exist right now, at least not by trade or free agency. Bouwmeester would be the best fit for us, he is reliable defensively, can move the puck, absolutely great skater and size to cover for Kronwall's aggressiveness. I think the two complement each other very well. I don't know which top pairing defenseman is available, I mean I believe there are about 15 defensively responsible first pairing guys, and they usually don't get traded. Weber, Chara etc. don't grow on trees that's for sure.

Babcock just needs to shuffle the lines until Filpulla, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, and Helm get back, those are 4 of our top 9 that are out. Whether or not you think Bert and Samuelsson suck, they are proven secondary scorers and among the leagues better depth players. Samuelsson has been producing very well these past few years, a lot better than people here seem to realize.

There we go. Franzen is a beast, modern day LIndros, what a sniper. Franzen>perry