Carman

Well I don't really like bringing overall team play into the fold, so many different contributing factors then one player being out. Like this year for example, I don't see how you can hold it against Crosby that the team didn't do well, Guerin was impersonating Bertuzzi's love for posts, the PP was dreadful, they have a rookie Dman leading the team on TOI, and had their two top penalty killers out. If you are going to hold that all against Crosby then Kovalchuk must not even be in the top 10 players considering his team was like that for 5 years. Fluery's stats may be average but he had some spectacular games, especially in the Philadelphia series, I like Fluery because he is also pretty consistent and has the ability to steal games, he may not be great every game, but he does give you a chance to win(Much like Osgood). I don't really think I'm overrating a young goaltender like Fleury he is top 6-10 in goaltending. Crosby outplayed Malkin through last years playoff's until the Detroit series, there was a reason Babcock used Zetterberg/Lidstrom on Crosby and not Malkin. Anyways I'm enjoying the discussion, hopefully we can keep it around this same logical level.

Afinigenov is one of those players I cannot see flourishing as a Red Wing. Nothing against him, I just can't imagine him fitting into the Red Wing's style. Williams was atleast drafted and developed as a Red Wing, he doesn't have a great two way game, but he's at least our "token defensively irresponsible guy". I don't really see how Afinigenov would of impacted the struggling start with us, would of helped a little offensively I suppose, but I don't think he would of made that much of an improvement. Salary difference could offer us a little more comfort, but now that we have plenty of space for the foreseeable future I don't see that as a gigantic selling point.

I don't see how people can hold 05-06 against Crosby. He outscored everyone on the team by almost 50 pts in his first season in the NHL. Not to mention it was a complete mess of a team with many of the players in their last year. Then Crosby outplays Malkin in 06-07( Malkin's great rookie year). Also by the way Crosby is one year younger than Malkin. 07-08 Crosby was injured and Malkin broke out although both had the same PPG, but I don't like to stretch numbers. 08-09 Malkin had a better year no doubt had 10 more points and outscored him in the playoffs. I can see comparing the two when they are injured to an extent, but I personally wouldn't to many variable factors. To me Pittsburgh's depth/goaltending needs a lot more credit then they are getting due. Staal is more then likely the best 3rd line center(right there with Flippula), Gonchar is a very underrated defensive defenseman and an absolute elite offensive one, Letang is a very good 2-3rd defenseman, Orpik is a very good physical defenseman (Scuderi was also), Fedotenko/Sykora/Kunitz/Guerin/Satan either are or were decent secondary scorers and Talbot/Kennedy/Cooke/Dupuis are great roleplayers/penalty killers. I think it's naive of fans to think Malkin/Crosby solely carried the team, of course they play a more important role, but they didn't win them the Stanley Cup they just got them there, in my opinion their depth won the cup. I don't agree with your conclusion that Malkin is more essential on those stats. He very well might be, but Crosby has been equal or better than Malkin in almost every playoff series, but the Stanley Cup one. It very well could be he couldn't rise to the occasion, but I tend to choose to believe that it was a different factor(Zetterberg/Lidstrom being on Crosby) then anything else. Also I find it interesting and telling that the Red Wing's chose to use their shut down line on Crosby and not Malkin that series.

Not trying to be mean or anything, but no one forced you to read or respond to the thread. Is the description of the forum.

Because it's a hockey topic and this is a hockey fan forum. Although threads about Crosby are getting a little tedious.

Yeah, Crosby certainly has big defensive flaws. But he is improving on certain area's(Faceoffs, actually playing on the PK). Yzerman really didn't become a defensive dynamo until Bowman. Yzerman was a better goalscorer then Crosby is. Crosby is probably a better passer. But I can't really think of two players on the same team that would be a closer comparison(even nationalities haha).

I wanted to say it, but I didn't want to hear the "you can't compare Crosby to Yzerman" spiel. But I completely agree.

Malkin has more physical talent then Crosby, but he is much like Fedorov in the regard that he looks fantastic one game, then disappears in another. He can take over and dominate games though. Crosby may not have the raw ability, talent and size that Malkin does, but he is one of the best battlers in the NHL he might not score every game, but he does not take shifts off. I'm probably going to get flamed for giving Crosby compliments, but it's very noticeable how much energy and determination Crosby has in his game, that to me is leadership. I'm a pretty big Pittsburgh fan, 2nd favorite team behind the Wing's and I've watched pretty much every game the past 4-5 years. I just don't see Crosby making the mental blunders Malkin does. I would take Crosby to build my team around. I feel he brings more intangibles. Crosby does get too much attention from the media, and it's effecting people's opinion of him. It's not his fault he was the first star after the NHL lock out. Crosby does overshadow Malkin, and most of it is unjustifiable. But if Malkin had the same scrutiny and expectations that Crosby did/has it would be interesting to see how it would unfold.

Aww I would have if I knew about it. Oh well.

There are many "all star" AHL goaltenders that never make it in the NHL. Howard has always been very inconsistent, and that is my main worry with him. It is a common attribute in most young goaltenders though.

Thankfully we don't need Bertuzzi to be his old self. His old self was the best power forward in the league, and a 100 point player. We just need him for 15-20 goals, and solid effort. Which he is succeeding in at least in my opinion.

Do you also recall last year in the AHL where he was practically outplayed game in game out by a first year European goalie? This isn't really directed at you, but I'm giving him credit when credit is do; But to say he's been undeserving of criticism up until now is a little far-fetched. He is known for being streaky, that's why I'm hoping he can at least be consistent this time around(which this year is his final chance in Detroit).

I go to about 5-10 games a year. Been to two already this year(Boston and Los Angeles). Live within 40 minutes of the Joe is nice.

I doubt it, it didn't seem intentional.

I don't... maybe carry the pens through the first two series last year? Or scoring over 100 points as a rookie. Or play very consistent hockey and be a face of a franchise from the age 19 years old? Malkin is damn good no doubt. He can take over games, it's just he seems to have the Federov complex of sometimes not showing up when you need him. haha you know I can't resist....

First game with a new team, with very limited practice time. I was pretty impressed for a 500k player. Played on some key shifts on the PK and did well. Look forward to seeing him get comfortable with Abby, I like that line with May.

Has the flu, just like everyone else on this planet it seems haha.

Definitely hoping to eat my crow on this. Crossing my fingers he can keep this play up, he was great tonight.

Howard tied with points with Kyle Wellwood. ^ I was right woot!

Wow Datsyuk wow. That's not even fair.

Helm is so damn good on the forecheck. Completely dominate that shift out of the corners.

It was a pretty good fight. Both trading some good shots in the beginning until Rypien took the fight towards the end.

Powerplay. Kronwall goal incoming I sense it.

HENRIK ZETTERBERG. AWESOME.

JIMMY is hot tonight. What a glove.