Carman

Bertuzzi's line isn't the one not producing.

Things Holmstrom does well. +Front net presence. I don't see how I'm biased. I'm watching hockey and saying what I see. Fact is the first line has been limited in even strength play. They cannot hold offensive possession, and I'm going to say what I think is the problem. Holmstrom has never been known for his defensive play, and was a big concern ever since he started with Bowman. He cannot skate well, therefore he cannot forecheck or back check well. And he isn't getting any faster.

He played with Iginla -1, and David Moss -4. I'm by no means saying he is a defensive god. But Holland got him to play in the top 6 no matter what fans on a forum think is right.

Honestly I hate choosing a best player, I think there are about 5-6 players that are about equal in their contributions to the team every given night.

Good to see we shouldn't see any even strength production for the first line for yet another game.

He plays with the best defensive center and the best defenseman in the league practically every shift. If you think Holmstrom in instrumental in Datsyuk and Lidstrom's success then I don't know what to say.

Iginla was -1 on the same team. It's not like Bertuzzi was -13 on the Wing's.

Not really close, but close enough to use my imagination.

We came close to having Bure as well around that time. Oh what could of been..

True enough, it's going to be a tough season given how much hockey we have played. I really don't see a lot of moves Babcock can do, 2nd and 3rd lines are doing well, and I don't think you can reasonably say draper/eaves/abby/maltby/helm are first liners, so it's going to be interesting to see what he does to start getting our first line to start producing.

I was trying to reserve my judgments until I saw him this season. Last playoffs he was awful, but he did have a pretty bad injuries. It's certainly early, but he is 36 and played a very rugged style of hockey for the past 10 years. He isn't going to look much better then he will at the start of the season, I don't see him improving his foot speed as the season progresses. I'll give him a few more games, and of course it's not just him, but we need our top 2 lines to perform well more then ever before. And if we have too, a lot of teams double shift their 3 top centers on the 4th line I'm sure Dats/Zetts/Flip can handle an extra 5 shared minutes, Holmstrom could still play on powerplays and some time sparingly throughout the game, but after these first two games seeing him work/skate his heart out, but just not being able to apply the pressure in the offensive zone to really help gain possession of the puck is really hard for me to watch.

I'm certainly not like Jake Ryan and his rash judgements and don't think we should throw Holmstrom out of the window. But if you are going to give Holmstrom a free pass, because of one goal when he is playing first line minutes is ridiculous. He might have cost Franzen/Datysuk many more scoring chances because of his inability to get to the corners and cycle. Datsyuk has been struggling since the start of last years playoffs, since then he has not been his PPG player self and I believe Holmstrom has some role in that. Datsyuk/Franzen are limited in the offensive zone and need a good fore checker to free up space and help gain possession of the punk. Holmstrom is great in front of the net, but that did no good this weekend except for one instance where that line was able to control the puck after a face off win. Other then that, they've been struggling to put consistent pressure in the offensive zone.

Homer needs to get out of the top 6. He can't forecheck, backcheck, cycle, and the only thing he can do is stay in front of the net. It's absolutely killing Franzen/Datsyuk in the offensive zone. They haven't had a good cycle yet, and it's because Homer is skating his heart out on the forecheck just to be 10 seconds late. Holmstrom is amazing on the Powerplay, that's it.

Not hurting the team as much as Holmstrom, but close.

Meh, if we did well with Kopecky actually playing in games, we'll manage with whatever Bertuzzi decides to play this season. Obviously they play in different spots in the line-up, but for 1.5 million I'd rather have Bertuzzi then Kopecky. Btw I'd rather have Bertuzzi over McClement as well. That guy sucks. At least Bertuzzi is has a good playoff beard and might net 17-20 goals or give us time on the IR so we can have Abdelkader up more often.

Bleh my bad, totally blanked out and forgot to put the isn't* in that last post late night. I wasn't saying that Osgood is bad, just that the two goalie combinations are comparable. Really don't care so much what he says about goalies, I'm just trying to understand why in your words 'no one should give a s***' about a player who is one of the best goal scorers in the game that's all.

Man, the underrating of the Blues is astonishing. The Blues are good. That's all I'm going to say. The Red Wing's didn't play well, but the Blues will be a playoff team. Also give Bert and Z a little more time, they are both coming off injuries and are new to each other. I really don't think they've been that bad. And I'm surprised I'm the only one on Holmstrom. He is really hurting Datsyuk and Franzen in the offensive zone, neutral zone, and on the back check. Seeing him skate his heart out on the forecheck to be beaten to the puck by 10 seconds is really getting old quick. I don't know what to do with him, but he hasn't improved much from where he left off in the playoffs...

You are bashing Selanne when he was interviewed by a Finnish paper and just gave his opinion and said that Giguère/Hiller are top 5 goalies in his mind, that isn't* alot different then Osgood/Howard considering Osgood doesn't have a Conn Symthe and is actually still in his prime(Albeit has had a rough couple years personally). I'd say he has a better idea then any of us considering he, you know, actually plays in the NHL? And to say his opinion doesn't matter? The guy has one of the most impressive records in the history of the NHL... I'm not going to get into where I rank our forwards. Datsyuk has not impressed me much in since the playoffs and the start of this year to really be a shoe in top 5 forward when there is soo much young talent just breaking out right now. Obviously last regular season he was without a doubt one, but since the start of the playoffs last year he is not at the level he was at. Just because I don't say they are top 5, doesn't mean I don't think they are impressive btw.

What the hell are people watching? Complaining about Bertuzzi? He is playing fine. Holmstrom is the one that needs to be out of the top 6, he is ruining everything Franzen and Datysuk try to do.

LOL. I shouldn't even dignify that with a response. We don't even have a top 5 forward on the Wing's so why should we even listen to anyone on our team?

Yes but he is European so his hits are divided 3.

Larsson hasn't played an NHL regular season game yet, but he can't be much worse.

I can hope the Wing's will win the lottery pick this year and get Taylor Hall. That would be great, he could be the next Yzerman.

Nah, but let's give Larsson a chance. He can't do much worse.

Probably won't be a big difference between Howard or Osgood if the teams effort is so inconsistent through a 60 minute game.