numberthirtynine

Montreal is the worst for that. The media and fans want so badly for them to be good, any sign of it and they'll freak out, and label them contenders. When they could be no better than the Panthers and if they were the same team, situated in Florida, no one would give a quarter of a s***.

I have been uttering those same sentiments^^ I'm gonna give him a couple more years before I totally and completely write him off, or else I'll look like the people who wanted Datsyuk traded for being a playoff ghost. And every last one of those people ended up looking pretty silly. Luo did s*** the bed against Chicago. People cna make excuses about it, and sometimes "excuses" are just actually the truth and justified, but in this scenario, he just lost it by not making stops on pucks he could usually save.

If that was sarcasm, it failed.

It sucks that Crosby and Ovechkin will never be Lemieux or Gretzky. Those two represent those two, not every good one way player in the game. It could be argued Datsyuk's offense is on par with Crosby's, Crosby just doesn't hurt his stats by backchecking. Pav is a better passer(I'm waiting to be flamed about this but he is), he's a better decision maker, stronger on the puck, etc. You can go by offensive stats if you like, but we all know the situation and context that isn't written on a stat sheet that make those numbers for all intents and purposes irrelevant. Taking into account the fact we were absolutely ******* screwed out of a Cup we deserved, not well. But could Sid shadow Dats? Not from the bench he can't. And if he's out there 5 on 5, he still couldn't. Sid is not a better passer than Pav. Sorry, but that's just wrong. Crosby I'd list as the third best behind Thornton and Pavs. Pavs has the best vision and touch I've seen since Gretzky. He doesn't even need to be looking at you, he'll put it on your tape from anywhere on the ice. Crosby racks up assists, which is misleading in the same way QB completion percentage hints at accuracy but doesn't indicate it. He's a good passer. Dats is a freak. Hossa's comments alluded to this too. Crosby is a meh defender. He's JUST been put on penalty kills and is pretty blah at them. Well if you've the time machine, I've the time. Did you read what I said? You skim more than milk. I see potential in Kane to be top 5. I don't like him but it's what I see there. Not to brag but I've got a pretty good track record. I saw Pavs coming and when I pointed it out, was laughed at. I saw talent in Franzen when no one would call him more than a third line grinder. I've called alot of guys and now, I see it in Kane. I also see it in Jonathan Ericsson. s***...least our guy can lose 20 cents in the couch and not hulk out. There is a chance I'm wrong and Kane just never improves, it's rare but it certainly is possible. While I'm at it, I'd also take Getzlaf over Crosby.

You've just got to watch more than if you're a member of the media or someone handing out opinion-based accolades. Judge yourself if you think he'd be able to do this elsewhere. Some of the greatest players of all time have played on the most stacked teams ever assembled. We seem to pick and choose which ones we reward with praise and which we just label "system players". I don't want to say it feels as if we base it on nationality, but sometimes it seems that way.

I hate you. Now I want toast with smuckers jam.

Yeah buddy whatever you say. Crosby can't play defense to save his life. Crosby, can't come up with a good game when you defensively crack down on the low slot. Hank shut him down. Crosby is beatable when you shadow him. Stick someone by the corner of the net and a ton of his points disappear. Datsyuk also makes better decisions, is stronger on the puck, is a better passer, isn't a whiny *****, and actually plays D. Shadow Pavs and he still makes a hell of alot more happen, but the biggest thing is still to me, D. That's the trump card. If I made a top 10 he'd be on it no question. I don't like him but I don't let that influence what I think. I think it's very important to be honest, more for yourself than anything. But I'd take Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Ovechkin and Malkin over Crosby any day of the week. And if we're not including D, Iginla. Who I also don't like, but will be the first to say he's better than Crosby. Give Kane a few years and he'll be better too. Crosby is so predictably overrated. I dunno how anyone can pick Crosby with a straight face over even the three players on our own team. Hank is debatable(I'd still take him but I can see how others wouldn't) but over Pav and Lids? Not a chance in hell. I like my players to be able to play defense, not watch from the bench on a PK.

A full year wiht the Wings, AND not having to play with Robert Lang. That's the biggest difference. I also after reading the topic title, pictured Bert doing the James Brown dance to "i feel good" alone in the dressing room

Are you kidding? This place is so collectively frightened of being labeled homers, alot of people will vote in anyone NOT a Wing so no one will rip on then for their decision. If I'm voting, I'm voting Pavel. The total package. I dunno why some vote Crosby, I'd have a tough time putting him top 5.

I usually just like to use my eyes in that case. A obviously foreign concept to the media. Datsyuk does well with pretty much any linemates we give him and I'm positive he'd make anyone look good. He has had Homer on a line with him and hasn't missed a beat-not many Wings nowadays can say that. That's harsh to say about Homer but it's just true, sadly. He's a Selke winner and a Hart nominee. That in my book is enough to make you top 3 if not 1 by default. He does everything. He's the best passer in hockey, best stick handler, a great skater, perfect vision, great playmaker, can hit, plays awesome D, is strong as an ox on the puck, is calm and poised, is clean and classy, never takes penalties, and hell, he even lead the team in goal scoring one year. He's so good that if you point out his skills objectively, you'd look like a homer. We're so eager to award Ovie everything and I do think he is the #2 forward after Pavel, but Ovie has a stacked team, too. They don't look at Detroit as a stacked team, they look at Detroit as Detroit, who has an image that reaches beyond stacked team. Our logo ensures our players they'll never get recognition because we've developed that very image. Ovechkin is surrounded by talent, left and right. But Ovechkin isn't the all around player Datsyuk is. The difference between their point totals isn't as big as the difference between their defensive play if compared. Crosby? f*** off, I'd take Malkin first but Malkin's D isn't as good as Pavel's. I'd take Pavel because he does what he does with bouncing linemates, and while playing D. Hank devoted the previous season to playing even more D and look what it did to him. Look at past Selke winners. Look at anyone defensive forward and 9 out of 10 of them score about 30-40 poitns a year. Playing D cripples your offense. 97 points from Pavel is mind blowing and I have no doubt that if we asked him ot just skate down the ice like an offensive madman and do nothing but create plays on O, like Pitt does with Malkin and Crosby, like Ovie does, like all of his competition does, he'd score 110-120 points per year. Imagine if we didn't have a deep-as-hell #2 PP unit and Pavel saw the ice even more, like some players?

C'mon man we both know we don't need proof for that.

lists like this are always fun. taking into account reg season and playoffs... 15. Miika Kiprusoff. Still dunno how to spell that first name and I live in Calgary. Had one good year, and keeps dropping. Only thing keeping him on here is that he's sometimes the only thing keeping Calgary in it. But sometimes lets in weak ones. Just a hair ahead of someone like Lehtonen here. 14. Marc Andre Fleury. Spectacularly overrated. Just happens to play on a team that the league wanted desperately to win. Also plays in the ugly contest that is the Eastern Conf, with a team that only had one real challenge. Should've easily lost the Cup if it wasn't for Bettman's Crosby boner. 13. Steve Mason. Overrated to me. Had a good rookie campaign but the Jackets tightened up D under Hitchcock did most of the work and Mason got ALL of the credit. Was quietly inconsistent too. Should be no where near team canada. 12. Thomas Vokoun. Hugely underrated goalie. Just played on a team of playoff chokers but was a wall and usually is, even in Florida, which is impressive as hell. 11. Nik Khabibulin. Playing great, and at his age, after bad seasons, that's rare. Good for him. Edmonton will make sure he's never on a list of mine again though. God awful team that'll sink his stats and career. 10. Ryan Miller. Is what it is. Has been talked abotu alot of this board. 9. Evgeni Nabokov. only reason SJ doesn't get eliminated even sooner half the time. most of the time he's the only one who doesn't disappear. 8. Henrik Lundqvist. I almost feel I should put him higher. Best goalie of the opening round of the postseason. Got screwed by his team. 7. Nicklas Backstrom. Raw talent. Would succeed anywhere like someone else said. Pure reflex. They don't make 'em like that anymore, sadly. Not enough postseason play to rakn him higher btu I would if I could. 6. Cam Ward. Good to see he's finally getting his due credit. A real talent and a good playoff goalie. 5. Martin Brodeur. Very good, but overrated. Hasn't done a damn thing in half a decade-coincidentally the last time he had a powerhouse team. Has always needed those teams and defenses. 4. Jonas Hiller. This kid is spectacular. I'd kill to have him in a Wings jersey. 3. Tim Thomas. I know Bs fans who still hate this guy for no reason other than being older, unorthodox and coming out of nowhere. He's damn talented, I can tell just by watching. 2. Chris Osgood. The most clutch goalie playing hockey today. Took Hasek's place on that throne right when he retired. We all saw what he did, I dunno why some ignore it, even here. Should be Canada's goalie, bar none due to his playoff play. 1. Roberto Luongo. Despite his crash and burn against Chicago, which I am blaming on him because he blew it, he's still the best goalie in the league. Only 1 because of counting reg and postseason. Would be 2 and Ozzie would be 1 if it was just postseason. left off turco, rinne and giguere. giggy's a hack. was always overrated, and now that he's not even playing shouldn't be on here. turco's a system goalie. bad dallas team? horrid turco. good dallas team? great looking turco. and rinne has got no PO play to speak of, and unlike lehtonen, is a little newer.

What a waste of a career. You play for Florida and build yourself up to the point where you can go to a contender.....and you go to Vancouver? And STAY there?! Well, ok man, whatever you wanna do. They're not a good team. In fact I think they've played well over their head the past couple years and are no better than some teams who didn't make the playoffs. And off hand, I don't remember anything that looked bright in their future enough to change anything, and after looking it up as well, I still don't. Your life Luo, do what you like. But you'll retire a loser with that team.

Lidstrom is a fantasy hockey superstar. Unless you're heavy on PIMs, he's one of the highest scoring defensemen around. He's got high points, high plus/minus yearly, high PP points. Lidstrom is fantasy gold.

THN is really impressing me lately Datsyuk should be 1. I don't care if I look like a homer, I know the best player when I see him. No one is the total package like Pavel. No one. He can do anything. And Lidstrom is way too low. Lemme guess-Chara was higher? What a joke. Zdeno "disappear in the last 3 months,playoffs included" Chara.

"Well, well, wellwhen Brett Favre throws a puck into the endzone goal, it's usually 8 points for the Detroit Favre Wings, now when he kicks it for a goal into the crowd it's a Favredown and you just wanna kiss him on his little Favrey lips OH OH WE-WE-WE-WELL I JUST MADE a little mess uh myself here" - John Madden

Kipper's image for some bats*** insane reason just won't go away. He's been riding that "last year was only a down year" rap for like 4 years now. I was the first one in Calgary to tell everyone he was declining and was the product of a great trapping defense. As the D has gotten worse, so has he. He's like many other goalies who can make miracle saves now and again but will let in weak ones at horrible times, way too often. Only with Kipper, he came out of nowhere to go to the finals, so his image and rep in peoples minds stays fresh for alot longer. It's just how people think. Kipper shouldn't even be on here. And Steve Mason should be alot lower. On the surface it appears he did amazing. But he was a beacon of inconsistency and his latter part of the season was a little bleh.

Oh c'mon why do we go by these "on paper" style recollection of games? Hasek bailed our asses out that year. We were an all star team almost every year of this decade and didn't always win. The Cujo teams had no business losing to some schmucks like the Flames but it happened. Hasek could've easily, and I think should've, won the Conn Smythe. I don't care what our roster was, we were down and out and Hasek shut the door against the Nucks, The Avs especially, and the Canes when they pressed early. We would've never touched Stanley if it wasn't for him getting into that old Dom zone that no one else can do. I've seen people suggest our 08 squad was the most stacked ever, not from a name point of view but from hard working, balance, depth and talent. And I wouldn't exactly say it isn't debatable. But Ozzie was a wall in both playoff runs and should've won this year. If we weren't screwed Ozzie would've won Conn Smythe. Neither should be underrated.

The only thing anyone ever offers as a reason why Ozzie is ignored, is the team he is on. I mean, we know what he's done when we break down on D but to them, a great team like ours cancels out everything he's ever done. Stupid, fact, but that's how they think. So why do we go gaga over Roy and Brodeur? Granted I think both are different levels of overrated, with Roy being much better than Brodeur. But really, neither have ever won a Cup with a bad team. Montreal during Roy's time were veeeeery good teams, some of the best of the day. The whole myth that Roy carried those teams has been proven a load of crap by anyone who actually feels like digging deeper. And Brodeur has played on the most defensive team in hockey history. Yet we wet our pants over him. Esp when if you dig deeper into his career, you'll see he's not nearly as impressive as every other great throughout history. I know why all this happens the way it does sadly, but it's still a shining example of a media that some people still think are credible, "just because".

Lidstrom is not a small guy. We don't know what he'd do in a fight. He's perfect at everything, why should we expect him to not be able to do anything? What I do know is this-the world wrote off Datsyuk as a *****, and even we figured he probably couldn't throw fists. This was before he threw around his body every chance he got, knocked everyone on their ass including guys much bigger, culiminating with him dropping haymakers on Gary Roberts. Point is, we had no idea Pavel could throw heavyweight punches against Roberts of all people.

That I like. The NHL has alot of good clean fighters. It's funny isn't it? Non NHL fans always see fighting as the problem when fighting really is the opposite of the problem-there's an unwritten code among them to stop if someone's seriously hurt, to agree to a scrap, and the goal isn't to kill the other guy, there are so many other reasons that are just team related. The real problem is our own media justifying cowardly behavior that could injure a helpless player or someone who isn't prepared for it. But as is the standard, we only come down on them once someone gets hurt. If they don't get hurt, f*** it, it's just passion!

Tanguay also costs 3 million dollars. Unless we find someone at almost vet minimum we've still got to fill roster spots and they weren't comfortable with Abdelkader being up this season. I also doubt he would've taken a one year deal here. there's more to it than just ____ > _____

I wondered before I clicked if it'd be an all time list, or a current list. I then saw Rinne on the list and knew right away lol This list is alright. It is missing a certain goalie named CHRIS f***IN OSGOOD. Hello? Anybody home? Think McFly, think...he's proven over the past couple years he should be high on this list, nevermind just on it. #1 just confirms the credibility of this list. What a joke. Yaaay! Let's put #1 as the most predictable choice zomg everinthehistoryoflists. C'mon. The guy has done nothing but piss away his teams playoffs the last 5 years. And before that, his team saw to it he faced a very low quality of shots, and almost no rebounds. As soon as the team got worse, so did he. Brodeur is an overrated system goalie. Start the rage attacks.

That doesn't automatically excuse the justifications made for other hissy fit throwers. It just means they're not completely stupid, which I'm sorry, won't win awards from me. You can play with passion and drive and heart and intensity without being a ******* idiot.

On ice conduct is important for so many reasons I can't even bother to get into them all. One being that dirty play can injure a fellow player and end his career, thus altering his ability to be classy by your definitions off the ice. And it'll take some seriously drunken reaching to suggest Datsyuk isn't a total class act. Because he obviously is. And about Iginla, I don't care how big the smile is he gives you when he's not in skates. On the ice, he's a punk *****. He's a Canadian kid so the media excuses it the way they did with Gary f***in idiot Roberts-they just call it passion/desire/willingness to win, or some other lame duck justification. If he was a Euro, Cherry and the rest of the world would hate him. Think about it... ...not many people who excuse Iginla's behavior, excused Alfreddsson for shooting a puck at a Duck in an uncalled for scenario. Then, it was immature and dirty. Throw a fit when you're a CDN playing for a beloved CDN team? It's just passion! Throw a fit when you're playing for a team no one cares about, and you weren't born in North America? You're a dirty punk. Gotta love the collective NHL media.