numberthirtynine

I've been supporting Ozzie since he won me over and even suggested he should start for team Canada. But no playoff goalie is better than Hasek. I don't go by how far the team goes, that's the TEAM, I go by how well the goalie did and how he played in spite of the team in front of him. Hasek in close games, was a wall. Hasek with a lead, was unbeatable. Hasek late in games, was inhuman. He got into a zone and he was just insane. And anyone underrating Hasek's 2002 performance is high. That guy saved our ass. He bailed us out against VAN, COL and was a wall against CAR. Time has a way of altering peoples opinions, but at the time he was a savior. Some of he things he did on a team filled with stars went unnoticed, and it's a damn shame.

I don't get replies like this. These types of comments are what makes people scared to speak well of their team no matter how true-because there seems to be this subtle, all seeing eye of "anti-homerism" in the air at all times. Like no one is allowed to say anything pro-Detroit on a Detroit msg board. And it's not just this one reply, I see this quite a bit. This mean sarcasm against anyone willing to make a nice comment about a Red Wing.

Iginla, Neidermayer and Kariya need to be taken off that list. Neidermayer was part of that Ducks goon crew and mad eno bones about it. He took cheap shot and was just like every other idiot Duck. Still is. I can't belive some people defend that team with a straight face. Oha nd that elbow to Datsyuk was LOW. You're a piece of s*** Scott, go get injured for all I care. Iginla has shown his true colors. He's one of a kind, really, because he puts on a hell of a show everywhere else but his temper just turns him into an idiot. Always has. Why do we ignore this? Because we as hockey fans want to? Ugghh the guy's a baby. And Kariya because he's always eyeing the refs, trying to be cheap. Non stop. I think it was Chelli or Roenick who said, and I agree, he ruins it for everyone else. And piss on HNIC, always trying to play middle ground for the Canadian teams. That Lebda hit was fine. Perfectly clean. Hell if you want classy players, put most of our roster on there. I don't care if I look like a homer, that's damn well what we are-the classiest, most sportsmanlike team in hockey. Our leader is a perfect role model, we don't start s*** unless it's maybe a couple of guys like Maltby or something and we only fight back when we need to defend ourselevs. We're not cheap, goons or anything like that. And it goes up through the coachign staff to the front office. The exact opposite of a team like Anaheim. Which was why it felt so great to beat those idiots.

QUACK QUACK MR. DUCKSWORTH

I swear to God if Helm or Leino get punted instead of Maltby, I'll hunt down Babcock and FATALITY him. Because I know that he knows that'd be the wrong decision. I'm a proud supporter of the Maltby for 13th forward campaign.

Games can be their best when the refs let them clear the crease, btu games can also be their absolute worst when they don't allow it both ways. We're Wings fans, we know damn well it doesn't go both ways. It almost never does. It ruins the entire game when that happens. We ust watched Pitt take liberties until they were blue in the face and we couldn't lay a finger on anything in yellow or we were watching for 2 minutes.

Agreed. Cleary won't ever be as good as Homer at what Homer does in front of the net, but his skill is higher and that, now, is what matters. Homer's net presence no longer outweighs his lack of skill, because his lack of skill has seriously declined. I agree with Holland. I was hoping the Wings would put Homer on the 4th line. It'll either light a fire under his ass and make him work harder, or he'll prove that line is where he deserves to be. Either way... I can see that last spot that Bert/Williams were going for, filled by many different players until someone claims it. I doubt it'll be Williams. Just not good enough. I can see Leino, Bert, Eaves, maybe even Homer or Helm getting a shot and whoever takes it is whoever has the most chemistry with Flip. Franzen is usually fine regardless but Flip's chemistry with one of those players will likely decide. Sadly, I can foresee a ton of issues with that line, with regards to low production and disappointing games. We'll overreact but it'll just be a chemistry thing. I think ultimately it'll be Bert who claims the spot despite Leino playing pretty well on the line and we'll all flip out.

Playing on a line with Robert Lang had to have been s***ty. Put him on a line with Darren Helm and light a fire under his ass. Helm plays like he swallowed a mario bros star.

Well we just signed Jiri Hudler. Just 7 inches taller, alot heavier, same talents, same flaws.... ...for 1.5 mil Yeah I'm about good with it

When the word f***wits accurately describes the way the general consensus here acts, I'll say it. Believe me, a lot of people think exactly the way I do but won't say it. I don't blame them, either, who the hell wants to put up with the inevitable 5 on 1 f***fest that'll ensue when someone doesn't follow the norm? LGW is what it is. It's not just me, either. I've seen over the years quite a few people ragged on for not following the herd.

Oh yeah, I was just talking about HFBoards in general, all areas included. I think the main problem is many major sports are so complex, so deep and so many intangibles make up some a huge part of the game that not many people can properly judge it. Not to mention we've got numerous s***-for-brains media sources constantly whispering in our ear who to root for, who to respect, who to hate and most of the time it's just dead wrong anyway. We'd be confused enough even without that. I think it's why we rely on stats so much. We're like politicians who rely so heavily upon demographics. It's our way of judging when it's too hard without them.

^See what I mean when I say this place is full of condescending f***wits? Keep it safe for yourself. Resort to avoiding my whole post and just calling me a newbie. Nevermind I've been here much longer than my reg date shows, it just goes to show if you don't go along with the crowd, you're shunned. Way to dodge the whole thing, too. Guess we're gonna need a little more room for the chicken s*** coming through, huh Maybe the same opinion with a 2004 reg date would be more to your liking, sunshine.

^That "flopping" into position is for a reason and is used when it's necessary. Almost 20 years and I can count on one hand how many people have figured out why he plays the way he does.

I don't mind these threads. I don't see why people have to viciously attack the guy, it's not like these threads hurt you or hurt the board. Unless the other topics had less than 3 pages or something, but if they get too big, I don't mind if someone makes a new one. Anyway, Helm is an energy guy. He needs to stay third line so he can be properly utilized. The top 6 isn't always about energy. Sometimes they're slow, methodical and are always highly skilled. Helm I don't think would fit in. A guy like Helm has to be used in certain ways. The bottom 6 is just anyones guess as to where they all play and with who. With the addition of two players like Eaves and Williams, it's really up to the coach, who a) probably doesn't even know yet and b) will switch it up most of the time anyway, esp early on in the season to get a feel. Also, about Homer....I have really grown to love his role. But I think whether we say it or not, we all kinda know he's hitting that wall. His time is almost at an end. He needs to get off the top line because I think Hank and Pav will suffer from him being out there. He opens things up and gets to the net well, but I think with those two having probably the bst chemistry of anyone in the league, they succeed in spite of him and would continue to do so anyway. Franzen and Cleary have really picked up some of Homers good habits in front of the net and cna tip pucks very well. It may be time to move Cleary to that top line. He goes to the net, he's not as good as Homer was at it, I don't think anyone ever was or is now, but he's got more skill. And that's starting to become a factor with Homer's declining play. I would like to see (LW/RW on either side, don't care, just the lines I'd like to see)... Pav - Hank - Cleary Franzen - Flip - Leino (but having many players alternating here to see who fits, like Helm, Eaves, maybe even Homer, etc. ) Helm - Eaves - Williams Maltby - Draper - Holmstrom ...with Kader being called up when someone is hurt or for any other reason. He's obviously next in line and a case could be made that he should be playing this season. We're not going to call up any other forwards over him, esp with Helm finally coming up, like he always should have.

It's not a bad site. It's just big. Thus it will attract some knowledgeable folks but for the most part, the vermin arrive in droves. Compared to here though it's a sanctuary of enlightenment. Here we're just all so damned afraid someone will tag us a homer that our "opinions" just start to sound incredibly stupid. That and if you don't go along with the crowd, you're attacked in groups who fear differing opinions. But I guess most things in life are like that when people are gathered in large amounts long enough. But the thing is here, on this board, it's done in such a condescending manner. It's one thing to not really know much, it's another to smell your own farts while you do it. HFBoards just had either too much Red Wing hate(which was never truly justified, but just petty agendas) or just far too many casual fan opinions which if you tried to point out their inaccuracies would take you a lifetime.

I think even numbers aside, it's pretty clear Jagr was the better player. Not to take away from Joe who I think is underrated and has been tagged a little too harshly with the choker label(it's a team game, not Joe vs whoever). But Jagr was just a machine, capable of making entire opposing lines look stupid.

For forwards, we'll resign Homer or he'll retire. That's obvious. I'd love Marc Savard on this team. He's one of the best passers in the game and we, having Pav, know what it's like to have the best passer. Put him on a line with Franzen and I can guarantee that line would have people creaming themselves. One of the best passers consistently feeding one of the best shooters. I'd kill for that. I'd like Kovalchuk but he'll get 10 mil on the open market if ATL doesn't give it to him first. Jokinen I want no part of. I endured the Calgary wankfest over this guy, and the only consistent thing about him is his laziness. He's too streaky when scoring, but he'll take each and every shift off in his own end. Guy's a bum and is going to make more than he should next year. He's also a locker room *******. Iggy and his overrated leadership abilities sure did a good job ironing him out huh? Psshhhh. Rest are either too old for too much money, too broken or too lazy. Frolov would be nice here though. Hejduk is going to be the sexy pick once we miss out on all the top notch talent next year, I can see it coming a mile away. I wouldn't pay that guy what he'll want. No way in hell. For D, eh we'll resign Nick or he'll retire. That'as given as gravity. He won't go anywhere else and I'm pretty sure no one is anticipating it either. As for the rest, don't want 'em. Too much of a logjam, too many players as is. Rafalski, contrary to the popular opinion, is a damn fantastic defenseman and ain't taking his 6 mil contract to the second line, so we can just forget about Neidermayer, who has fallen off a slight but defensively anyway. Gonchar doesn't actually play D and while Johnsson is good, we wouldn't have room anyway. This isn't a real hot year for UFA defensemen. I wanted Bouwmeester but that idea got nixed when he went to go teach Dion how to play in Calgary. Goalies? I can see Ellis in a Wings jersey. He's always wanted to play for us, he comes cheap and is damn good. He's fallen completely under the radar and that can be a result of many things that don't include not being able to play anymore. The kid is damn good. It would all depend on two things. 1) Does Jimmy Howard suck it up so badly we decide we don't want him here and 2) Does Ozzy retire? If he does, and if Lids takes the small paycut many are expecting him to, we may go after Ellis or Hiller. At least I would think we should. The rest are either too expensive and not enough proof they're worth it(Luo/Nabokov) or just aren't Wings calibre for the playoffs. Which is what really matters.

Did someone just defend HFBoards? AND say they're relatively schooled on players we're not? Wow...

Phaneuf should play for team Canada when about 7-8 other NHL defenseman disappear into thin air. If he makes the team, I know Stevie's just going off of rep. Let him work on his horrendous positioning on the Flames, not where it actually matters.

Yeah, what other pertinent information do you have on me? You seem to know quie a bit and I'm sure it wasn't just a retarded assumption. What a clown. Just because I think Brodeur's overrated? My thoughts on Brodeur have nothing to do with any Red Wing past, present or future. But alas, assumptions are easier and arguments are more fun. Hence, your idiotic reply.

......smh. ok 1) did you even read all of what i said? and helm has a "decent work ethic" is probably the stupidest f***in thing i've read here in years. and that's saying something considering this place is facepalm central. the guy is the most energetic, hard working player i have ever seen, and odds are i've been watching hockey before most people here were s***ting in diapers. but i expected comments like this. no unique ideas allowed! the team must be 4 lines of scoring all stars! no grit! and don't give me lucic, thats f***in lolz he's not bad defensively. and again did you even read my whole post? read it again. marty and luo are above him because of their last names and certainly not their recent play other countries don't do this and hence, why they win. probably just the result of having something vastly different than the dumbs*** canadian media. the fact ozzy was excluded doesn't assure me that helm was excluded for a good reason. it's always just about the name on the back of the jersey. i can feel confident in saying if we didn't have a line like helms, with helm leading it, we wouldn't have made it to the finals or won the cup before that(nevermind his GWG). you can have all the scorers in the world, someone will beat you eventually because teams like russia and sweden also have scorers just as good now. canada needs to turn to the one player that more than anyone else, exemplifies and is canadian hockey to a tee. and every sissy finesse forward wil get their f***in heads rattled and more than that, their psyche rattled, because no one expects that in the olympics. it's a hell of a lot less intense than the cup playoffs, and feels more like an all star setting. there's more hitting obviously but the kind of stuff helm brings is most definitely not there. i say, bring it. and i tried to think of a superstar forward who would but i couldn't. like i said, i've never seen a guy do what helm does so consistently. and mike richards, brendan morror and these days even shane doan ain't no f***in soldiers. hell, you know what? i'd even leave dan cleary home and take helm on the team. cleary can at least be replaced by a guy like doan or something. cleary is grittier but the difference isnt' enough to warrant a spot. but helm? no one can do what he does. lucic makes it because he plays a season? f*** that, if any other gm was running this team i'd say ok, fine, but stevie y knows damn well what helm can do on a consistent basis. lucic is a grinder and a very good one but he can't dow hat helm does. he may score more, but helm plays like he's high on speed. canada would be wise to use this to their advantage. it's not about how much he would score, it's about the kind of unprecedented headaches he'd give every other national team. siht, imagine lucic and helm on a line together? and no one will be able to fight fire with fire. yeah, what are they gonna do? just send out a different scoring line? they're MADE to play against scoring lines and give them fits. it'd be perfect. but alas, we just go by last name. it's not about just wanting red wings, if your lazy asses would actually read for once you'd see that.

dear you get over it. you pussed out of the other thread because you formed arguments and you could not. signed us

Far too often ew attribute team accomplishments to a single player. And single player accomplishments can usually be influenced heavily by supporting cast. It`s very common considering not many people know how to truly judge talent without help from someone else or by looking at a stat sheet. But at least they got Hasek right.

How vital to Detroit`s success are guys like Helm and Cleary? So often when making these lineups, we just want to shoehorn every superstar into the lineup and form an all star team. I think success goes deeper than that. Much deeper. I say, add Cleary and Helm. I know, saying Helm should make team Canada will turn some people into raging flame emitters, but think about it. Put them on a line with Iginla or Doan and watch that line take over games. Other countries won`t have the line matchups to go toe to toe with that line. No way at all. And if Helm seems like a crazy pick....why? I can only imagine a logical reason being that hes young and inexperienced but hes forced his way onto the best team in the league and the closest thing to an all star team the NHL has in one city. He doesn`t make game changing mistakes and is in fact, damn clutch. We all have seen what Helm can do. He won over Don Cherry for f***s sake. I think this is why Canada usually ahs a top to bottom lineup that looks unbeatable but doesn`t come away with as many championships as you would think. For a country so preoccupied with grinders and smash mouth hockey, we at Olympic time just load up on every scorer we can and are happy that some of them are kinda big and physical. We as Wings fans after the last two seasons should know the importance of matchups and grit and third or fourth line intensity. Helm and Cleary are so valuable to every playoff run we make and I think they would be just as valuable to an Olympic team roster. When every opponent line is a finesse, scoring first line, you run into the problem of having too many captains and not enough soldiers. We as Wings fans should also know about that. This roster isnt about reputation like so many others-its about winning. I like Helm for obvious reasons and Cleary for his grit, and defensive play. And its a sad reality that if we filled Canada with nothing but the typical players, half the team would be f***in lazy or wouldn`t play defense. And yes, I do believe that matters just as much for the Olympics. Here are my lines. Nash-Crosby-Iginla Heatley-Spezza-Staal Lecalvier-Thornton-St. Louis Doan-Helm-Cleary ex Savard I only put Crosby first because Getzlaf isnt going. I dont trust Crosby under pressure. Not for the status we give him. I think Nash and Iginla would make him look great no matter what though as both are top notch shooters and he`s probably the third best passer in the game behind Thornton and obviously Pav. The third line I like because of chemistry, size and speed. They`re all good shooters and passers as well, and chemistry is the most important aspect. In a tournament where there wont be as much of it as usual, its important to take what you can. Its always the biggest thing holding back teams like this. Same with the second line. Spezza and Heatley are long time teammates and that counts for quite a bit in a tournament like this. Add Stall who showed me he can come through under pressure and that line is money. The fourth line I think would be able to do everything but most importantly, for the ice time they`d get, they`d terrorize opposing lines who will almost always be soft finesse lines. A grind line here is of the utmost importance. It was so tough leaving off Jeff Carter and Milke Cammalleri too. As for defense... Pronger-Neidermayer Weber-Bouwmeester Keith-Wideman Whoever put Regehr is high. That man is overrated, I don`t care what the general consensus thinks. He`s just the sexy pick right now. And I onl put Neidermayer where I did because of chemistry with Pronger. Weber and Bouw are both so underrated its sick. That will be the best pair for Canada if theyre together. I chose Wideman because of his consistency. Just always in the right place, never makes too many mistakes and sweeps up rebounds like a motherf***er. No Mike Green either. You have to be at least competent in your own end to make my Canada roster. As for goalie... Chris Osgood. I wont bother picking 3 goalies because I dont see a point-once we get into the serious games, one guy will play and the others will see the bench. They`ll never see ice time short of an injury so f*** it. Brodeur and Luongo are going anyway but I wouldn`t trust them with playing net for Canada in a true pressure situation. Chris Osgood has shown me that under pressure, real Cup calibre perssure, he is up there with the all time greats. Brodeur only won Olympic gold playing against a weak USA team and Luongo hasn`t proven s*** to me yet. He carries Vancouver but he didn`t carry a team to the finals two years in a row. It`ll start national riots of the overrated national hero doesn`t start or at least Luongo but f*** that, I`m about winning and not choking. Period. Ozzy has proven he can be more clutch than anyone else playing today. Ozzy has in the face of one of the worst reg season performances he`s ever had. He turned me from someoen who thought we would lose in the first round because of him, into a believer. He should`ve won another Cup this year too if it wasn`t for the league wanting to give Pitt a title. Anything less than Chris Osgood in net will have me nervous every game, wondering when one of our megaheros will f*** the game up on an easily saveable shot. I never thought anything would make me question Stevie Y, but the decision to not even include him in the invites and instead picks A ******* ROOKIE over Ozzy? Smh....f*** that. Is he just concerned with not looking like a homer? I thought that only happened on LGW...

Maybe the league just needs a good 20 years to get used to the cap. It seems to be confusing the hell out of some GMs who still have jobs only because of their pre-cap reputation. But we don`t have that kind of time. Not with the way this leagues been screwed up. So instead of a 56 mil cap or whatever we have, why not loosen it up. Don`t call it a salary cap with all the rules we have now, just limit teams to spending 70 million a season, and make the minimum mathematically reasonable, so that if you want to own an NHL team you`re not a penny pinching asswipe. I never liked the cap. Not once. I never felt as though teams spent too much, as much as some teams spent too little. Some teams were happy to not even compete. I say f*** that-if you own a team, you pay a salary minimum. And no more 120 million team salaries, that`s too much, but make it a limit a little higher than 56. I know it`s like putting the training wheels back on the kids bike because he`s too stupid to learn without them, but we can`t be picky in this league right now. We may be forced to take the KHL seriously a lot sooner than we all think.