numberthirtynine

Does anyone know another Wings forum with fans that don't think the sky is falling everytime we get scored on? This place would be awesome if it weren't for the ******* people. Flip didn't score, oh no. We're not gonna win the Cup now.

Again, you're a spoiled fan. This almost never happens. You think this doesn't happen to other teams? Go be a fan of the Islanders for a little while. Go be a fan of ANYONE OTHER THAN US for a little while, then come back. Thing will look pretty good.

I swear, Ozzie could let in 10 straight 5 holers from center ice and some people would still say it's the defense. IT'S THE TEAM. Wake up, fanboys.

Definition of a spoiled fan. This happens less to us than to anyone else. And we act like we're the Atlanta Thrashers. Yes, the loss hurts. Grow the f*** up. It happens.

We earned our wins especially that WAS game. I swear, one loss and this forum turns suicidal.

Wow. ******* pessimists here or what?

oh good lord, you people panic over nothing. he pinched up a little. he's a kid. like no one's ever made a mistake before. for a kid he's been really f***in good.

I'm not sure I'd want to be called "The Flower". Not the best of sports nicknames lol.. I think the most apt ones are The Great One, The Dominator and The Russian Rocket.

I doubt one try out camp, no matter how well played by Cloutier, would ever be enough to take a job from Howard, considering the circumstances surrounding the whole thing.

Wow. Get over it. I'd hate to be the reason you lose sleep at night. To answer the question, Crosby does have a very good backhand. I remember seeing Gionta rip one of the meanest backhands I've ever seen from the point and ring it off of the post. Kariya and Gretz have probably two of the craziest backhands ever.

Right bud, whatever you say. Now you're deeming certain points not worth responding to? Why not just wave the white flag of defeat? This is so NOT what I was saying. Not like this. I JUST TALKED ABOUT IT. The hell are you talking about avoiding it? See? This is what I mean-you don't actually read what people say. Datsyuk plays on the PK and shadows opposing star players. In a stupidly difficult Western conf. Crosby just plays balls to the wall offense int he East. It all That was my response. I haven't ducked a word anyone has ever said to me on this site and you know it. Just incase you'll play the "wasn't worth responding to" card which I could jsut pull blindly for everything you said but don't, I'll elaborate. Playoff performance is about winning, not scoring points. What do you do that helps your team win? What do you contribute? Datsyuk contributes offense and defensive play. When he's not contributing offense, he's shutting down opponents who do. Crosby doesn't do this but scores a ton of points and plays great in rounds against Eastern teams. It then winds up in a debate over which is more important. I'm willing to have a logical debate about it but you've practically got your hands on CTRL V telling me "Crosby is better because he scores more points, period". No context. No reasons. Just point totals equal being better. If you think the officials didn't hand them wins when they were in danger of missing the postseason, or help them past Washington, you're just trying to make the argument easier for yourself. I watched it happen to the Caps when they started playing better, I saw it happen to us, I've seen it happen to numerous teams. When you wear yellow, you have a whole different set of penalties, different from everyone else. I don't know if his teams would advance half as far playing in the West. And Crosby's only mentioned because his team advances as far as they do. A high scorer on a losing team is never remembered. The West thing is what I would guess would happen. But the ref thing, all you have to do is pop in tape of this years postseason. It's all there. YOU HAVEN'T COUNTERED ANYTHING I'VE SAID. lmmfao you can't just SAY you did without doing it. we can all go back and read every reply smart guy. It's not just as black or white as being "two way or not". Mr. interpretation skills needs to have a meeting with Mr. readmyf***inreplies. I stated this fact in no uncertain or difficult to understand terms. I just think you're angry, I've gotten under your skin, and you're far too proud to admit I said something you couldn't counter. Many of us did. The stats are misleading for the very reasons I pointed out. If you're that lazy, I'll re-quote it for you. I never had a problem with your disagreeing. I had a problem with you failing to reply to logic. It's why YOU were attacked and no one else. Stop ducking that point and address it already. You're just projecting your "hate being disagreed with" flaw onto others. It's typical human behavior but stil. I touched on all of these things you mentioned. Would you deny them if I put them in a nice, tidy post, quote after quote? And you do the same with yours? Because you're clearly the one who doesn't have a leg to stand on and I can prove it. Because I already have. I'm here. Where are you? Ball's in your court.

This is just so Osgood can steal his mask. But really, if he signs, welcome to the AHL. This guy won't take Jimmy's spot. Jimmy can't go back to GR, so I find it highly unlikely we're going to let him go or even trade him in favor of DAN CLOUTIER fo all people. We are the Red Wings after all, we wouldn't be this successful if we made decisions like that.

I heard Patrick Roy has a good backhand.

^Sad that some people just take sides without reading. I directly addressed this by saying it's not the deciding factor. READ. smh... Cute, it's mimicking me. Playoff performance will spawn a dozen different forms of debate. Do you really want to add to this? When you can barely hang as it is? Datsyuk plays on the PK and shadows opposing star players. In a stupidly difficult Western conf. Crosby just plays balls to the wall offense int he East. It all I said this last post. YOu just repeated yourself. "CROSBY IS BETTER". How about actually addressing what I say? Well, why bother right? Your friends will see you getting owned and come to your rescue. then why did the other guy not get the treatment you did? maybe, and you'd have to swallow your pride here for a second-you just dont' try to debate, you regurgitate and hope no one notices. i point out how sid and ovie aren't in the same league as waybe and mario. i point out why they don't represent great one way players throughout the league, as you were suggesting. you said nothing to counter it. i pointed out how datsyuk might have it a little tougher, esp given his role, in the playoffs. you just repeated yourself and didn't try to form a counter point. i pointed out how the stats were misleading and could not prove anything. And I wasn't the only one. You didn't have anything to say to that. I don't expect anything less than the masses siding with you, seeing as how i don't pull any bulls*** when someone is willingly being an idiot. but c'mon, at least try. You think a counter point is just saying what you said before. Lmmfao. Someone takes up permanent residence in lala land. I could point out that gravity exists and you'd tell me it doesn't. Upon proving it does, multiple ways, you'd just tell me..........it doesn't. Lol you must be confused. I tell you very casually to f*** off. And I'll do it to anyone who acts like you do. We're adults, get over it. You purposely acted like a coward. So don't put on the babe in the woods routine now. You could've just actually tried to debate this instead of just chanting "I'm right" without giving reasons.

It's like most sports. We'll see an evolution of(in this case) the enforcer, if it's called for. If teams are really truly looking for skilled fighters in a package that we've rarely seen over the years, we'll see more players like it. The need has to be there, and that's the part that's debatable. In this day and age of the cap, is a fighter even worth it? Does a fight really scare anyone anymore? Of are we still clinging to that mindset of back in the day when it did? Did downey or McCarty really stop anyone from taking runs at us? Nowdays, the real enforcers are the officials. You take a run at one of Bettman's precious little guys and you'll be sitting. Your suspension will be longer and you'll have every ref's eyes on you all the time and will have your penalties called more liberally and easier. You'll probably gain a rep if you do it a few times. That's more dangerous to me than any fighter in the league. I think it's also why we have players taking liberties with our guys-we're not protected by the officials. Half of the time we're playing against the refs, too, while most teams get help when they need it and some even get handed wins to further the leagues interests. Some teams are opting for shootout specialists who can at least skate and maintain energy on a 4th line. There's really no one calling for more Lucic type players, even if they are valuable. It's just not high on the list of priorities for some GMs when they think about the tools required to win a Cup at the end of the season. Even if they maybe should be.

Funny, I thought I was on your ignore list. I'm not picking Pavel just because he's a two way player. I'm sure many other people are in the same boat as me-his offense is close enough that being a two way player can be the deciding factor. It's not just black or white, "is he two way or not". Again, Sid and Ovie aren't 99 and Lemieux. I'd pick Wayne and Mario over Pavs in most instances, but I'd pick Pavs over Sid and Ovie in most instances as well. The stats proved nothing. You can't just keep saying "THEY PROVE HE'S BETTER" when I made a point you couldn't refute. Many people did. It's simple-when someone makes a point that one ups yours, you generally try to take logic, use it, and come up with a point that tops the point the other person made. Such is a debate. You're just pretending no one said anything to you. Think Mcfly, think... *facepalm* When we spoke about trophies, it was because one practically inhibits a player from achieving the statistical requirements to win the other ones. Not a "WHO HAS MORE!?" yelling match. You obviously have just tuned out all the counter points everyone has made against your claim, so I'll put it simply-Crosby, Ovie, Malkin...none of them would crack 100 points or win Hart trophies if they played the D Pavel does. And if you even try to suggest they would, it's just proof to many of our suspicions that you're just talking out of your ass. Yeah that finals was something else, huh? Better playoff performer is a debate for another discussion entirely, and I don't think you're capable of having that intelligent discussion. I'd rather have Dats in the playoffs. Keeping the other team from scoring in the West, is alot more impressive to me than pumping out a ton of points while hoping to outscore your opponents in the ugly-contest that is the East. the Wings had the distinct disadvantage of being held, clutched, grabbed and being in the sin bin for most of that series from game 3 on. game 3.....wonder why? yes, there are. You just duck and dodge anything you can't refute and pretend no one said it. And we can see you do it. That's why you're acting, willingly, like an idiot. Believe me, I'm fair. But if you act like this, I won't hold back. So don't cry to me, this isn't preschool and we're not all here to hold hands and sing songs. Don't be f***in stupid. It's one thing if it's not your fault. You ignore points. That's all.

"gretzky and lemieux weren't two ways players, who would you rather have?!" "crosby and ovechkin aren't gretzky and lemieux, they don't represent every good one way player in the game" you didn't have much to say. still don't. so please, show me.

Blah blah, s'all I see. You're too scared to address what I say, and instead just repeat your same initial illogical point, even after I've countered it. You're trolling basically, so f*** you. Notice how I didn't attack the other guy like I attacked you? Because he's trying to at least go back and forth in a typical debate-like fashion. You're just being an idiot on purpose.

I hope you won't just automatically discount whoever I name. Anyway, what about Derian Hatcher? Guy was a goon. Played dirty. Attitude was s***. His team happened to be good, and happened to steal a win with a dirty call. Yvonne Courneyer was always a whiny *****, complaining about Bowman because he made him work. Scott Neidermayer is a piece of s***, and plays like a coward. Crosby is a whiner, he hogs attention and throws fits when he doesn't get all the spotlight, he's just a child. Sid the Kid might be the most apt moniker in hockey. Also, let's not forget some teams win without captains. You'd think a team without a captain would forfeit their chance at victory, right? But it happens. How did that happen!? Fact is, the captain can be anyone on the team almost. They're one player. A Captain can be injured for a playoff run, have his team win, and he's suddenly a great captain? This is so illogical it makes my head hurt. I haven't seen a reason why this is true other than "well they won, he must be doing something right". Odds are, yes, but not necessarily. It's like the old NFL line-"defense wins championships". It doesn't, it just happens pretty frequently so we assume it MUST be true, when it isn't necessarily true. There's nothing about a Cup winning team that automatically makes a player a great captain. A captain's line can be shut down completely all playoffs and have the other 3 lines score enough to win. He can whine and do no leading of any kind. Now if they squeeze out a win, does he automatically become a good captain? You just haven't explained your stance, but I don't think you can, it's just not logical.

f*** you. You're being argumentative on purpose. You're not only being willingly illogical but you're ignoring counter logic. On purpose. Actually trying to counter what I say would be a good start but you're clearly not here for an intelligent debate. You're here to troll.

Excuses? Kid, if you ducked my point some more you'd be switching hemispheres. You can't take a Selke winners stats, who doesn't have nearly as much offensive ice time, and compare it to a player who doesn't play D, doesn't play on the PK and spends more ice time, spending it on offense. Stop avoiding it, you're being a coward. And I completely countered it, to which you replied with silence quieter than a corpse. What "most people" think doesn't mean more to me than the dogs*** in my backyard. Security in numbers, huh? Keep piping and ignoring logic. Yeah, my feelings. I also let LOGIC get in the way, too. Presumptuous f***wit. When you whine like a *****, pout after losses, refuse to give credit to players better than you who PROVE it, and have an inflated sense of entitlement about everything....you are in fact, a s***ty captain. A good captain leads by example. Stevie Y. Nick. Sakic. LMMFAO That is the stupidest ******* thing I've ever read. You can be a s***ty captain and win. Captain's don't dictate Cup wins. Moreso their personalities. Yeah, I'm an *******. I'm a whiner. I'm a dirty player. My TEAM won a Cup. I'm instantly lifted of these flaws and I'm a great captain.

There's not that much pressure on Montreal goalies. No one truly, deep down, thinks they'll win a Cup. They're just out to razz the poor kid(s). Like it's a game. It's more hazing than pressure. Detroit is a true goalie pressure cooker, as we've seen over the years. It's gotten inside of many goaltender's heads and killed their game. Mon just smells panic in a young goalie and attacks. Probably an unfortunate side effect of being a city full of assholes and arrogant jerks.

The fact those OFFENSIVE numbers for Pavel include PK time, and time in his own end, skews the comparison enough to render it irrelevant. yeah he certainly played great in the finals. i'd swear crosby's paying you to say this. he's also a s***ty captain, to focus on your other comment. he has an inflated sense of arrogance and entitlement and whines like a baby when he doesn't get his way. The hell!? First the argument is "well we're homers so we pick pavs" then it turns into "hank was so bad even the homers won't pick him". you can't claim both, it's contradictory, so which is it?

Um, no, you can't just repeat yourself. The point of a debate is to try and counter what the person said previously. The fact one of them plays D so much he's won 2 Selke awards, kind of throws a stick into the spokes of the "Crosby has more offense" argument. you should probably try arguing when you get your facts straight. this is still apples to oranges because of teams, rosters and a few other factors. besides, we're not voting on later, we're voting on now. for all we know, sid's topped out. This is always to go-to argument when someone has no faith in their own knowledge, or needs extra numbers to feel secure. I put very little faith in the media and the general consensus, for most things, nevermind just sports. We're the same populace that overrates and underrates players everyday. Unless of course you feel the media is intact and accurate with everything they say, publish and suggest. To which I'll call a loud and clear BULLs***. I don't give a good f*** what a group of people say, I see Datsyuk as the best all around player in the world, and his offense isn't below anyone enough to discount him.

What do stats prove when one player is a Selke trophy nominee and the other didn't even play on the PK? How, in context, are these stats indicative of anything!? And how the hell could you not know that?