Yzerfan1999

I give props to Lowe on this one. I am typically part of the bus here in Edmonton that says Lowe is a retard - but the guy is doing everything he can within the rules to get a player that he thinks will benefit the Oilers. Is Penner worth 4.2 million based on his 45 point season last year? Absolutly not, but Lowe is not paying him that much because he got 45 points last year - he obviously thinks he has the potential to score upwards of 75 points. If he does - and it looks like he will at some point within the next 2 or 3 years, Lowe will have his 4.2 million dollar player. Look, Edmonton has the cap space and the need for Penner - Burke failed to lock him up and even said in the article that the two sides were far apart in negotiations. Burke being pissing at Lowe for offering him a contract now is silly, he whines about the timing? Come off it man, Kevin Lowe and the rest of the NHL are not going to put there organizations on hold for the weekend just because you are being induced into the 'B.C. Hockey Hall of Fame' (whoooeee). Lowe can make the offer whenever he wants, I really don't think he should have waited till Burke was good and ready. And why should he have notified him that the offer was coming?? So Burke could have scrambled to sign Penner quicker? Give me a break. Kevin Lowe did the right thing, and I think we've all heard Burke cry like this before - its starting to get silly.

Found them myself For those who didnt see them edit- sorry dont know why they didnt work here is the link http://staaltactics.blogspot.com/

I really don't think Holland believes toughness is not a part of hockey. No GM of a NHL franchise thinks that, so its silly to assume Holland thinks it. It IS safe to say Holland doesn't think an Enforcer has a place on his team - but toughness? Anyone is hockey knows the value of it - Holland just knows toughness is not always brought through enforcers. If Holland thinks the team needs toughness he will add it before the trade deadline. He has 2 million left to work with, no need for him to go out and sign an some 6'5 thug cause he will rack up Fighting Majors this year. Lets judge the toughness of the team Holland ices once the season begins.

The more of these i see, the more afraid i am that the Wings will put all kinds of silly lines running down there jerseys aswell. Keeping my fingers crossed that they are nearly identical

It seems i was too late to see them.. http://www.letsgopens.com/scripts/phpBB2/v...pic.php?t=15741 anyone save a pic by chance?

I would have Robert Lang on my team anyday. Unfortunately someones always got to be the goat huh?

right, but Detroit didnt carry a legit enforcer - got as far as Buffalo, and we all know they could have taken down the Sens. I just find it hard to believe having a Derek Boogaard on our club would have put us over the top.

If you consider Buffalo successful, why is Detroit left out of that group?

yeah TSN has it too. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=214073&hubname=nhl

Maybe we should make it clear what the difference between an enforcer and a tough hockey player is. I dunno - I consider enforcers guys like Boogaard, McGratton, Parros, and Parker. These guys have a sole purpose on the team and that is to throw there weight around and fight when told. I consider guys like Moen, Chris Neil, and Sean Avery tough guys. They see regular ice time on the third or fourth line, and actually manage to put up respectable numbers. Do the Wings need a guy like Neil? Heck yes, any team does. He sticks up for teammates, drops the gloves when necessary*, and put the puck in the net. But do I think they need a McGratton or Parros? Absolutely not. They don't fit into the Wings game plan. The Wings are a puck possession team - guys like Parros have trouble skating the puck out of there own end, let alone setting up pressure in the offensive zone. I just don't think Holland and Babcock are going to devote cap and roster space to a guy who can't play within the system they are working. Chris Neil and even McCarty of 7-8 years ago are/were able to maintain toughness while still playing within a system. A highly question a Parros type players ability to do that. I think the enforcer days are slowly coming to an end. Teams value tough guys who can still compete at the NHL level with the puck on there stick.

Yeah..this article is sad/scary at the same time. How could you go around being a prostitute knowing you were infected with AIDS? Its a sad situation.

Arron Asham is 5'11 210lbs, and Robert Lang had more PIMS then him last year... Hardly the guy to make any player shake in their boots. Sorry guys, Asham is not the answer to our enforcer 'problem'. And sticknmove...Reed Low? The guy has fewer then a handful of goals in 250 games played. He doesnt even belong in the NHL. There is no roster spot for him on the Wings. Look if there was a guy like Dave Semenko out there, i'd say heck yeah sign him. There is no one worth signing to a regular roster spot at this point for Holland.

Exactly. Lecavalier Iginla and even Ovechkin are prime examples.

yikes.

You obviously judge people on weak assumptions. If you think i am a simple, one dimensional thinker based on the fact that I don't think an enforcer is needed in Detroit...well I'm sorry - thats pathetic.

Wow. Based on your juvenile insults, I hope you are under the age of 15 - if not, you should be ashamed of yourself. As for your argument - I'm SURE if the Wings would have had 4 more FM this season, they would have been much more successful in the playoffs - were fighting plays such a huge role. The Wings proved this season that fighting majors don't get you Wins - having a balanced offense and defense does. In fact they've proved that for the last 10 years. Take out the fights in Avalanche related games from the last decade, and the Wings are a relatively tame team, and arguably the best team in the league in the last decade. Its clear from the Wings success that fighting is not part of their game, having skilled players is. I think its obvious that Holland is constructing this team around talent, not fighting. The Wings finished the standings higher then 29 other teams, and lost in six to the eventual Cup winners because of injuries NOT RELATED TO 'CHEAPSHOTS' which would have been prevented by an enforcer scaring other players off. Using Anaheim as the ultimate role model of a hockey team because they have Parros is foolish - We all watched the Conf. finals. The Wings didn't loose because they didn't have an enforcer, that series could have gone either way. While it would have been nice to have some TOUGHNESS, thoughness is not always best exemplified by an enforcer. Laugh at me all you want sticknmove, but Zetterberg DOES have grit, and if you watched any hockey this season, particularly the Calgary series, you would have seen Zetterberg hanging tough with Iginla on several occasions. By the way have been warranting 'further explanation' and debate in this forum for the last 4 years - I get it. I suggest you smarten up and show some respect to other posters. EDIT -for the record - this thread is asking if Detroit needs an Enforcer, and I'm saying no. I have no complaints with toughness, in fact - like everyone else i'd welcome more USEFUL toughness..obviously. But useful toughness is guys like Shanahan and Fischer. Guys who are actually useful beyond fighting.

I'd like Markov and Ekman.

Your numbers are irrelevant. 6/10 times in your stats, the team with FEWER fighting majors won the cup. The Canes won the Cup with a WHOPING 19 fighting majors last year!? Whooiieee. Even though I am sure it would make no difference to the argument, i'd like to see the fighting major TOTALS for every team for the last 10 years, and we will see how many times a team with high FM won the cup. I don't know what more you want. The Wings won the fricken conf. last year and barring injuries vs. the Ducks, very well could have won the cup. Maybe someone should ask the players how much an enforcer helps. For younger guys, I can see it adding security - but for the Wings, and experienced, veteran club - I think most of these guys can stick up for themselves. They have the skill to win the games, they don't need a big fight to pick up there game play. And the Wings record from the last 2 seasons along with last years playoff proves that.

I remember watching the game on TSN when Torres leveled Williams, and they had some nice commentary on it. They applauded the Wings for not going after Torres after the hit, because to many of the Wings, and the refs knew it was a clean hit. (the topic of headshots should obviously be debated in another thread - I'm by no means arguing to keep headshots in the game - just saying that according to the NHL rules, it was legal) In many cases throughout the season, retaliation was not necessary. I really think people put too much value on retaliation. Look at the trouble it gets players in...Bertuzzi and Simon for example. The Wings did GREAT without enforcers to go around and 'getting even'. Hollands approach is appropriate, the Wings don't need one big fighter on there team. There are a number of Wings who won't take s*** from other guys - Maltby, Cleary, Chelios, Lijia, Franzen, now Drake, and even Zetterberg mixes it up nicely from time to time. I really don't think the Wings are ever playing scared, and the product they put on the ice proves it. Its important to have guys like Cleary who are hard nosed hockey players, but having a guy who goes out to get even for supposed cheap shots was not, and is not necessary. I really don't think the Wings received more cheapshots then any other team in the league last year. And if they did, they responded the right way - by beating the other team on the scoreboard- which is way more productive then bashing a guys face in. Teams fear and respect the Wings for their talent and skill. A guy like Laraque, Parros, or Bogaard only take up time on the ice which could be better spent giving experience to younger prospects who actually have the ability to score. Unless Holland could find an enforcer who could also score goals, I don't think he would waste roster/cap space on the guy. I think my main point is that the Wings won the conference last year without a tough guy - what makes you think a Parros type player would make the Wings any better then they already are? The Ducks were great last year because they had 3 lines that could score - not because of Parros.

Hart - Crosby Art Ross - Crosby Richard - Crosby Selke - Crosby Byng - Crosby Norris - Lidstrom Vezina - Hasek Calder - Crosby (Cause they figured they messed up in 06') Adams - Crosby (part way through the season he becomes the Pens Player Coach) Jennings - Hasek/Osgood President's - Pittsburgh hah- its fun to guess, but there are always some big surprises at the end of the season.

West Detroit Anaheim Vancouver San Jose Colorado Dallas Calgary Los Angeles Minnesota Chicago Nashville Edmonton St. Louis Phoenix Columbus East Pittsburgh Ottawa Carolina Buffalo New Jersey NY Rangers Tampa Bay NY Islanders Montreal NY Islanders Toronto Philadelphia Boston Washington Florida

If the enforcers value is only relevant during the reg. season, the Wings proved that enforcers are no longer (if ever) necessary to win. The Wings finished first in the West, and tied for the most points in the league. What more do you want?

Whoa...that was a dick thing to say. Settle the f*ck down.

Hey Joe - The Jimi Hendrix Experience

I feel bad for Shaefer...