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Dont forget about when Fischer decided to cross check whoever that was on Carolina in the face in the finals. Wings fans love to think that because the wings treat their players with class, that they only want classy players on the ice. Haha they need a wake up call

Well your exact words were "do you really want a jackass like that on our team?", sure sounsd like you dont want him because of the style of game he plays. You also made a bulls*** comment saying the wings only sign classy players, which is a strawman in itself. Because stats in the USHL dont project to the NHL at all. You have to project players, and sayign you would rather have Marshall, the last pick we made in last years draft over a guy who is ranked to go in the 20s of this years first round is ridiculous. I guess if you know nothing about scouting and projecting to the NHL than it would make sense to say you would rather have Marshall

Well there you go again, assuming because he plays a physical that he has no ability to play the ouck. Yeah theres no bias at all. Pronger is theonly defenseman to win the Hart trophy in the last 30 years, if you wouldn't take him on a team you are clueless. And yeah the wings definitely wouldn't go after players who aren't classy You know this is only the team who recently drafted Callahan and compare him to Matt Cooke and Carcillo, employed Maltby, signed Hatcher, played Brad May, Chelios, Dallas Drake, traded for Ulf Samuellson etc. You really think they care about class on the ice? The only thing they care about is winning games and if a dirty player can help them do it they will sign them. Avery was a locker room cancer, thats why he left. Just because a guy plays Prongers style doesn't mean hes a jackass like him off the ice. Yeah he is a guy who makes huge hits all over the ice, guess what.. hitting is allowed. So basically what it boils down too is you dont like him because you think hes a knuckle dragger since he plays physical, and would rather have a 5'10 guy who is rated lower than him. Cool, give your self a pat on the back, you get a gold star for proving my point that there is a bias against tough players.

Well than youre a complete Homer if you would take Marshall. Ever think that maybe Mayfield is always out there in tough minutes, againdst top players, while Marshall in his rookie year might be getting sheltered minutes on a much better team. Rafalski had a better plus minus than Lidstrom, I'd take him over Lidstrom, size be damned. See how dumb that sounds?

Haha thanks for proving my point. You looked at his pims and decided he was a knuckledragger and that he can only fight. I have news for you, he had a whopping 3 fights all of last season, he's hardly a scrapper You're really showing that bias I'm talking about buddy. You use points to compare a forward on a pretty good team to a defensive defenseman on the worst team in the ushl, good stuff. Mayfield isn't about putting up points, he is an adam foote type player who was huge for the avs in the late 90s. But yeah of course there's a flashy small euro ranked BEHIND him, but since he scores a bit of course he's the better prospect. There you go doc, the bias I was talking about. A guy ranked in the first by pretty much everyone is a knuckledragger because he has pims. I rest my case Hey shaman while we're at it maybe we can package callahan and sheahan and hopefully steal kabanov away from the isles eh?

Yeah and the only one that is ranked higher than Mayfield is Klefbom who is not very realistic at 24 I dont think. Every other one of those guys are skilled forwards who are pretty much all unanimously ranked below Mayyfield by most, if not all that have released a mock draft. So why again are any of those guys not being questioned at 24 when theyre notranked higher than Mayfield? Oh because theyre flashy skilled guys and there is a bias against tough players and some perception that they cant play hockey Nicastro seems to be a number 5 or 6 type as well who is physical but none of these guys are high end defensive defenseman. They are no Adam Foote, Rob Blake, Schenn, Hatcher etc. Taking a high end shut down guy would do wonders for this team. Instead of having Lidstrom being the only amazing defensive defenseman on the team, a top end, stay at home defenseman would work wonders for this defense. Luke Schenn was one of the few bright spots for Toronto this year and he is looking like he was worth that 7th overall pick for sure. Just because these type of players arent flashy, they wont get recognition but they have huge impacts. RobScuderi was a huge reason the pens won the cup in 09 against us, he doesnt score points at all

Musil had high expectations this season that he didnt meet, hes fallen quickly in the rankings. He is a poor skater as well which scares me off of him. He projects to be a shut down type defender with enxt to no offense. Mayfield is meaner than him, a MUCH better skater and while his offense is questioned.. He has played on an god awful team in the USHL the last few years. Guys who fall that far over the course of a draft year really frighten me, especially when he had no serious injury or something a la Pulkkinen. They both project to be shut down guys with a bit of offense but Mayfield to me seems to have a better toolbox for it. Hes bigger and tougher as well as a better skater. He is also credited as being the hardest to beat one on one. Yeah Brodin to me is an odd player and I dont really know what to think of him or Klefbom to be honest.

I would take Mayfield over Connor Murphy, Musil, and hes is right on the same level as Brodin for me depending on what a team needs. Oleksiak is my dream from this draft to fall to the wings. With what the team needs I would love to see them move up to secure Oleksiak. 6'7, great defensively, great skater, some offense and a mean streak. I doubt he falls to 24 but it would be awesome to see them move up and grab him. Morrow is looking to be pretty solid but I'm also never sold on defenseman who play for great teams. He is a 92 birth year and didnt really blow anyones mind with his production this year. He can skate great and has all the tools but he isnt really great at anything which worries me, hes more like a jack of all trades. By pick 24 there is no such thing as a sure thing though. A trade up for Oleksiak is what they should try to do. He is a perfect compliment to Smith in teh future, and I dont care that he isnt flashy (Im sure some on here will), he is the stay at home defensive type the wings need

Well it certainly seems that there is a bias when this thread is full of people saying he is a mid second round pick and that we should take Khokhlachev over him. meanwhile I've shown countless mocks that have Mayfield rated higher, he fits a team need much more and noone is yet to show me any mock where Mayfield is a mid second round pick. It seems weird that I'm being criticized for wanting a big, tough hockey player at that pick, meanwhile the people saying he would be a bad one are calling for a 5'10 skilled guy which we have plenty of who is slotted to go later in pretty much every mock draft you can find I think Morrow would also be a great pick but with the way he has climbed the rankings I really dont see him being around at the wings pick. I would take Morrow over Mayfield but dont see him being around.

yeah and in one of those Khokhlachev is going as the last pick and the other he isnt in the first round at all. Now can you find one where Mayfield is going anywhere in the mid second round at all? Cause you said thats where hes going and have seen mocks showing he will be closer to 45 than 25, and you still havent shown one even though Ive posted about 6 with Mayfield going around the wings pick and higher than Khokhlachev in pretty much every single one..

http://ohlinsider.com/consensus.html Theres another mock with Mayfield going at 27, while Khokhlachev is falling into the second round. So once again can anyone find a mock with Mayfield going mid second that is done by anyone with any kind of credibility or was that just some made up crap to try to make the small skilled guy seem much better?

There is actually four featured mocks on NHL.com and he is first round in 2 of them, and plenty of others I have seen. I am still waiting to see any that have him going anywhere close to 45 or in the mid second round? I have seen plenty more of Kokhlachev or however you spell it not in the first round than I have of Mayfield. Yes obviously if some amazing forward slips for whatever reason, the wings should take him. Khoklachev is not a better prospect than Mayfield is at this point, and there are way more mocks with him going second round than Mayfield but for whatwever reason since he is small and skilled, there is a fascination on here to take him and for some reason there are people trying to say that Mayfield will go mid second round while we should pick up another small, skilled forward. Can you show me any of these mocks youre talking about where Mayfield is going close to 45 or mid second round?

Its not a NA bias. Its the fact that some people on here are in love with the softer, skilled eruropean players. I dont care where a defenseman is from that plays an amazing shutdown game, we're talking about the best or second (Oleksiak is right there) in this entire draft. Kabanov is a great example of this. He was a flashy stick handler so almost this entire website was calling for him last year in the first round, he didnt end up going til the 4th to the islanders and is now a borderline bust already. Give me a Jiri Fischer or Konstintinov, I dont care where youre from, I care how you play. I've shown that in pretty much every mock, Mayfield is going in the first round, often ahead of Detroits pick and noone has yet shown a mock to verify that he will be going closer to 45 than 25 or is a mid second rounder. He isnt a flashy player, just liek adam Foote, Hatcher, Luke Schenn etc are/were not. So of course because he isnt flashy people on here are going to call for someone else in the first round, regardless of the fact the wings want to add size to their prospect pool, lack any top end, stellar defensive defenseman and lack a mean streak. Instead a 5'10, skilled, small forward is being praised while all of our top prospects except Smith are Tatar, Nyquist, Mursak, Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen. The only big forward prospect we have is Sheahan, the rest are south of 6 feet. I dunno just look at all those mocks I listed earlier, I think only one has Kholkalachev going in the first round, and its after Mayfield. The rest have Mayfield going right around the wings pick, yet there are some people in here trying to make me sound like an idiot for saying we should take him. Whats with the bias against big, tough players is a better question to ask. And I never once said your guy wouldnt grow at all, thats some notion you got. You keep going on about how I said that, all I said was its unlikely for someone to for sure grow 2 inches and gain 30 lbs. Sure some prospects do it but its the rule not the exception. There is also nothing wrong with that type of player, but it isnt what the wings need now at all. There is a big, tough stay at home defender who also has the potential to put up 30 points a year while being one of the best shut down guys in his whole draft projected to go right at where the wings pick, the wings DO NOT need another forward who 5'10 and undersized. Especially one who is more of a reach at 24 than Mayfield is.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=69366 http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=69367 http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/ http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=68729 Im not sure which mocks you are looking at? Those all have him going right around the wings pick. Your stattement that he'll be closer to 45 than 25 is way off base. I have answered you plenty of times. I never said your prospect cant get bigger, its just not as likely that a 5'10 prospect will grow 2 inches and 30 lbs compared to a guy who is 6'4 gaining about 20 lbs. So once again, like I've said your prospect sure could grow but even if he does somehow squeak out another inch and a half he is still south of 6 feet. Is it that hard to realize that a guy with a 6'4 frame has more chances of adding 20 lbs than a guy who is 5'10 to grow 2 inches PLUS gain 30? And even with Tatar gaining that much weight, he is still only 186 pounds. Not big at all for an NHL player. I guess its not surprising though, of course people wouldnt want Mayfield.. This is the site that was screaming for Kabanov at 21st overall last year and would have rather had him over Sheahan.

Yeah those freshman girls are gaining the same type of weight that an NHL hockey player should gain, and its not like girls retain weight much easier that guys either. So you grew an inch in college, most guys grow a bit after the age of 18 but not a whole bunch and definitely not 2 inches on average, its an exception not the rule. Kholclachev is listed at 5'10 that is undersized. And one last time, maybe I should put it in cap locks if you dont get it his time. Mayfield is already 6'4 and only 195 pounds. I am not saying he will grow at all, but at that size it is much more likely with that big of a frame at 18 that he will gain more weight that Kholchlachev will. Its not that hard to figure out. By 18 most guys are done growing height wise, but their testosterone levels allow them to bulk up on muscle and fill out. IM NOT SAYING YOUR FAVOURITE RUSSIAN PROSPECT WONT GROW AT ALL, BUT IF YOU THINK HIS CHANCES AT GAINING 2INCHES AND 30LBS ARE HIGHER THAN A PLAYER WHO IS 6'4 AT 18 GAINING 20-30 LBS, YOU ARE WRONG PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Yeah I said CSS, maybe youre not aware but thats central scouting services. They scout NA skaters. ISS (International scouting servies) are the ones who scout Europe. I figured you would know that or maybe you just didnt notice it, its not like I was trying to hide it or something.

Well on NHL.com mocks they have him going at 20th and 22nd or something like that, they know quite a bit I would say. That is far from mid second round. CSS has him ranked 24th and I have seen several others putting him in the 20s as well. I welcome you to post a link that has him going in the mid second round, at the latest Ive seen him going at around 31 or 32 No its not ok for you to assume an 18 year old will grow 2 inches, he very well could but by that age its pretty rare. Gaining 30lbs on a 5'11 frame is also a stretch. The guy I'm talking about is already 6'4 so he doesnt need to grow so no I havent said he'll get bigger. But at 6'4 its likely that he probably will gain about 20 pounds, unlike a 5'11 player. Especially with the style of play each player plays, putting on weight will be much more in Mayfields training. Thats why its ok for me to call Kholklachev undersized, because he is

Youre assuming he'll grow, you have no clue if he'll add 30 pounds or gain another few inches. Mayfield doesn't need to grow, it is just likely he will put on weight because he is 6'4 and underweight for his height. Khocklachev is undersized, I'm sure he is a great player but now what the wings need. I can see Armia or whoever because he is 6'3 but why the hell when there are guys that big on the board, would the wings pick another small forward when there is equal skill with size that is going to be around?

You must have him confused with someone else. Hes not projected close to the middle of the second round lol. Most mocks have him going right around 20, most right before the wings pick. Khocklachev is another small skilled forward, its not like the wings dont have any of those. We're talking about a big, physical potential prime Adam Foote/ Luke Schenn/ Derian Hatcher. This isnt an Andreas Lilja, this is the guy getting credited as having the best one on one defensive skills in the draft. The wings need a shutdown guy like that. As for dominating because hes physically mature, he isnt. Hes still adjusting and filling out his 6'4 frame. Hes probably got 30 pounds to add. Hes not an unskilled player, hes just not flashy. But I guess on LGW if he doesnt have youtube videos of him dangling, his skillset wont be appreciated

There should be a rule against this, I hate how many plaers do this and the knights have been the worst for it. It stops the small town OHL teams from having any success. Kane and Gagnier off the top of my head both went to the knights after saying they would go to college and the knights had those 40 wins in a row or whatever it was that year.

Well at that stage in May's career, he was just there to fight, if you dont call that one dimensional than I dont know what problem you have with the wings signing an enforcer? Seriously I dont want a one dimensional guy, I want a Mccormick but if you say you dont want a 1 dimensinoal guy than say May wasnt 1.. I just dont see why you dont have a problem with anyone coming here. May couldnt do anything really, he could take a pass and give one but wasn't quick and was a decent fighter.

Yeah its not like Suh is busy with huge endorsements or anything. Anyone who questions this guys work ethic and dedication is beyond stupid, seriously the guy is a beast. With him leading the charge the lions just might, dare I say, make a playoff push next season

A lot of your points make sense actually. The wings need to toughen up on the bottom lines. I find it hilarious that some people dont realize that when they have more balance and have their more physical teams, they are better off. 08 had Drake, Mac, Downey (all season), Helm playing a small role so all he did was run guys, Kronwall on his A game taking guys heads off and Stuart being more physical as well. It isnt about getting an enforcer, its about getting tougher players who can throw some big hits and wear other teams down. Usually players like this are the type who will drop the gloves as well so the term enforcer gets tossed aruond for them. Mccormick, Konopka, Prust etc are role players who also fill the role of enforcer as well as PK, hit etc. The wings need some players like this. The wings are in the bottom half on the PK, and Drew Miller isnt even their top PK guy, so why does his penalty killing make him a shoe in for this team? People here think the wings can just win it on skill, well sorry to break it to you but with Bert, Homer etc in their top 6, they plain and simple cant do that anymore. They need to be able to wear teams down instead of just getting worn down all the time. The 08 team was tough and could wear teams down, the teams of recent years couldnt

100 percent true, Ericcson is good but never fights and Abdelkader is learning. Other than that the guys have noone. Bertuzzi had 2 fights in one game in like 3 seasons here. Mccormick or Konopka in place of Miller sounds good to me

Couldnt be further from the truth. I wouldnt mind seeing Pitkanen in Detroit, but you dont have to make stuff up to try and sound like he is a better option than he really is.

Looking at some mock drafts in later rounds I like Joel Edmundson as a potential stay at home defenseman, he has drawn comparison to former teammate Dylan Mcilrath. A 3rd round pick on him would vbe nice, he is 6'4 and mean (good pick if we dont take Oleksiak or Mayfield first round). Jesse Forsberg hasnt lived up to offensive excpectations but has all the tools. He is 6'1 and one of the toughest defenseman in the WHL. He is always throwing huge hits and playing solid defensive hockey. Tyler Hansen is also a big stay at home type, he isnt quite as tough as the other guys but still could be a nice pick. I would really like to see the wings develop a big, mean stay at home guy. If you can use a pick on Sergei Kolosov, whats wrong with picking Edmundson or Forsberg lol?