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The wings have never won a cup without a guy considered an enforcer, just sayin'. I dont think this means you need an enforcer to win, but in playoffs you can't get by on just skill, there needs to be balance. And this team has NO forwards capable of doing what Drake did on that playoff run. Abdelkader in a couple years maybe but Drake was a machine. I think a defenseman like that would be beneficial, but it is better to have a forward as the designated enforcer type because its easier to compensate for him while he is serving 5 minutes. The ideal guy would be Carkner, I dont know if he would be available but he is cheap, can PK play over 15 minutes a night and is a top 3 tough guy. Boston has a bunch of guys, Mcquaid would be a good 6th defenseman. Salei really isn't that great back there that he couldn't be replaced with a guy like that, we could use a bit more bite back there really. Ericcson's physical game would probably step up if he was partnered with a guy like Carkner as well. Sheldon Brookbank would be just as good as Salei too. Itll be interesting to see who we sign to play the 6th spot after this season

Where did I say that? Hudler can be a consistent 50 point guy in my eyes, but I think a physical guy getting 40 is better for this team then Hudler getting 50. If we didn't carry 14 forwards, Kenny could take the money from Hudler and Filppula and put it towards a player like that. You can get guys like that for around 3 million

This is something that I dont get either, people are always like, well the wings always win so why change anything? But the fact of the matter is, the times that Detroit has won the cup, they have had some very physical players in their lineup and have not won when they have not. I'm not saying an enforcer, but they have always had guys with a mean streak. It can be argued whether or not this is true, but I think physicality has a larger impact than most people on here would like to acknowledge. Drake and Mccarty in 08 on forward, Stuart and Kronwall on defense 02 had a Mccarty, Shanny, a younger Chelios, Fischer (broke his stick across a guys face in the finals, god I miss him ) and everyone knows how tough the 97 and 98 teams were. I think being physical in the playoffs is really underrated on these boards, partially because a lot of people haven't played hockey and partially because a lot of fans became fans when they became more euopeanized

EZBAKE used to come in here and brag about himself I think is what hes saying lol

The thing about that is, Drake wasn't in his prime here, he had 3 goals and 3 assists and basically was just there to be physical. Things worked out for the wings pretty good that year. And even Drake in his prime isn't that rare of a player, 35 points with a physical edge is not nearly as hard to find as people seem to think on here. You could get someone capable of 40 points with a physical edge for pretty close to what Hudler is making.

The fact that anyone is against a poll saying bring Prust to the wings 4th line shows how ignorant this whole site is. Prust has more goals AND more points then Miller, while being 4th in the league in fighting majors AND he chips in on the PK AND he hits harder AND plays 4 more minutes per game Are people actually that dense that they wouldn't take Prust over Miller? There is no logical reasoning behind that. I know there are other guys listed, really the only one that I can see an argument made for Miller being better then is Rupp and even then I'll take Rupp over Miller

Well when you basically have an entire post defining what grit is and dont mention anything about hitting or fighting, its pretty easy to confuse what your definition is...

Tonight during the leafs game there was a scrum to end the period. Kulemin started throwing gloved punches at Tim Gleason (who is pretty tough), Gleason dropped the gloves and absolutely blasted him with a punch. It looked worse then Webers punch on Lilja. Kulemin did not return to the game. There should be a youtube soon. Hopefully Kulemin is ok but he really learned a lesson there, if you wanna throw punches be prepared for that s*** and dont bark up the wrong tree. Gleason gave him what he deserved

Yeah konnan the game did change but not to the point where HITTING and forechecking is gone, drake in his year with the wings did not hardly score at all, but he had a niche noone else could fill and did it great. The only thing the wings changed is they don't carry a full time enforcer (except in years they win the cup ) but that does not have anything to do with getting a guy like drake in the bottom 6. Drake was not really rare or special at all when he played with the wings, players of his ilk really step up come playoff time, miller did nothing last year during the playoffs

Yeah but do you see those guys on our team right now that dig in corners intimidating anyone with their digging?! No, you can argue definitions all you want but Detroit doesn't have that guy who can go out there on forward and really change momentum with a big hit game in and game out. Helm and Abby can hit, but they dont really do it that often. Having a guy like Clutterbuck would really help this team, he swings the momentum of games because he is always hitting everything that moves and it does make the defence want to give up the puck earlier. Eaves is a very good bottom line guy but he doesn't hit hard really, Miller does nothing of note out there, Helm and Abby hit on occasion when they feel like it and Cleary can throw his weight a bit too. But Detroit lacks that one guy who is a heat seeking missile out there looking to crush anything that moves, these players really get the other teams defence worrying when they are on the ice. Digging in the corners is great and we can argue the definition of grit, but are you really that dense to say that digging in corners is as gritty as a guy who does dig in corners AND throws big hits and will scrap on occasion? Detroit fans are used to sitting here and saying oh our team can take alot of hitting and cheap stuff against us so we're tough. Why not be able to do that AND dish it out? I swear there are a lot on this website that started watching the wings when they became very European right around the lock out and if the wings adopted a different style of play they would not be fans anymore...

If Ericcson did fight and use his size he could be intimidating, but he hardly does. Abdelkader maybe come playoff time could as well but he hasn't really so far this year. Abdelkader is a hard nosed player but he isn't much compared to a guy like Clutterbuck, Drake or Tootoo like the above article was saying. If those 2 are your toughest players, you probably have the softest team in the league and not much balance

Noone is going to shoot the messenger here I dont think, that article is saying exactly what most on here, myself included are saying. A big useless goon like Boogard isn't what we are asking for but that article is saying guys like Tootoo and Clutterbuck who are forwards that go out there and just try to put people through the glass out there like Drake did. It is no coincidence that these types of players do also fight a bit, that style of game usually makes a player have to fight every now and then. Detroit doesn't have a guy on forward right now who plays like the guy in that article is saying. Abdelkader could be that guy, but he isn't yet, he is more of a physical player with some skill. Clutterbuck, Tootoo and Drake were all freight trains on skates looking to put people through the glass. Watching those youtube clips of Drake, its impossible to say a player like that doesn't have an impact on momentum come playoff time. That shift against Dallas changed the momentum and you could tell the wings were energized. What did Drew Miller do last year in the playoffs that has people wanting him over a guy like Drake who can have shifts like that? Honestly the only thing he has going for him is his PKing and he isn't even that great at that.

Eva you are ridiculous, sorry but you are one of the few who dont consider a guy who fights tough. You take a punch from Colton Orr for a living and then tell me that isn't just as tough as what Homer does. Seriously if thats what you consider toughness the nthats fine but its not what we are discussing here in this thread, overcoming adversity is a form of toughness sure. But in hockey a tough guy is someone who will throw huge hits, and drop the gloves, its pretty straight forward. We can argue that deifnition all we want but it doesn't change the fact that the wings are missing a "tough" player like Drake and if one was added in place of Miller (who was s*** in the playoffs last year) that it would help this team. Someone please tell me what Miller provides that someone like Konopka or Rupp couldn't? Or else its just pretty obvious you guys just like soft hockey.

He gets his ass beat but he never dishes it out really. The wings have some toughness yes, they can take a lot. Homer is a prime example, but you know whats even tougher and makes you tougher to play against for the other team? Dishing out some of that punishment Homer takes. I would also say a guy who takes punches to the head from guys like Boogard and Orr are just as tough as Homer.

I tihnk he clearly throws a couple gloved punches in there, gloves on or not they were still punches. If he was pushing he would be using 2 hands and not going up around his face. If Kulemin wanted to he could've gone in that scrum and just tied him up but instead he starts throwing some gloved punches and got taught a lesson. It looks like Gleason is saying that to Dion at the end actually, he looks like hes saying he came at me first almost haha

Completely. He gave Kulemin what he deserved but he should step up if he has too. Gleason is a pretty respectable tough player and I think he will gladly man up

When the wings win the cup every year, I'll be happy with the roster, but they are not and there is always some little thing that can be tweaked to make them better. Right now I think adding a Drake type player would only help this team. Drake adding that element had a huge impact in 08.

This isnt an enforcer debate, this is some tough hockey players that will lay guys out when theyre out there during their bottom 6 minutes and that will at least stick up for one another every now and then. Drake was HUGE for us in the 08 run to the cup and he played like a man possessed physically, this team could use another guy like that

Haha this is true, but I really just feel like if E had a big badass playing with him and backing him up, he would play with more edge. He realy has a lot of potential on that side of his game, he could be an OK heavyweight fighter actually with some experience

Noone really gets scared of having the puck picked though, that is not intimidating. Datsyuk gets into guys heads by taking the puck away, but is Drew Miller really scaring anyone? Not at all. Konopka or Rupp (since you said Neil makes to much I wont use him as an example) would actually scare guys when they are constantly hitting them hard. I think what a lot of people dont get is that noone is saying trade away Datsyuk or Z for guys like this, but when you have plugs to fill in the lineup, why not fill them with a Konopka instead of a Miller who actually provides something this team doesn't have? Its not really about stopping the really dumb players from playing tough, but like Babcock says, it starts to get tiring when ******* start acting tough against the wings. (I know not his exact words)

I agree on some points and dont on others. Do I think it would be worth taking Miller and Drapers salary coming off the books next year and invest in someone like a Chris Neil, Jared Boll, Rupp or Kenopka? Yeah I really do, but I dont think we should have an Eric Godard. People say the wings dont have that type of a team, but replacing guys on the lower lines like Miller with this type of player could really only help the team, I wish we would draft a Chris Stewart type player sometime just to see how it works out but I dont see the wings doing that sadly. Callahan, Smith and Abdelkader should be on this team for a good chunk of the future, Abdelkader isn't really playing that tough lately but I think he has potential. Smith and Callahan are both tougher players then Abby so they will really give this team a boost. This is how I feel about the topic exactly. I think it needs to be clear here, NOONE IS SAYING ENFORCER. Just a bit grittier in the bottom 6 will help this team in the long run, no team is perfect. Guys that can play the game and play tough aren't as hard to find as everyone tries to say. Konopka is making peanuts and I really wanted the wings to sign him last year, same with Rupp the year before that.

They are even defensively I would say, Carkner just provides what Salei would have if he would've came here 6 or 7 years ago. Pair Carkner with Ericcson and I wonder how much more edge Ericcson would play with as well

He does very well down there is the weird part. He is one goal behind the goal scoring lead and had 26 points. Iflip has 33, and he is a very good PKer who will fight when he has too. Maybe the management doesnt think his wheels are good enough for the NHL or something. This isn't just me wanting some fighter on the team either, he really is one of the better players down there, plays every situation as well

You must not watch him play, typical LGW post. This guy get in fight, he suck at hockey for sure. He is used as a PKer, plays over 15 minutes a game and is probably a top 3 tough guy in the league. What does Salei provide as a 6th defenseman that Carkner does not. They really are similar players except Carkner is tougher (Oh I just answered my own question, hes tough, thats a lgw no no)

Wow eva, we usually dont see eye to eye on a lot of things (Hudler mostly) but someone call the news paper because I agree completely with this post It really is true, and I think its mostly people who look at stats and haven't seen Emmerton or Iflip play that want Iflip on the team. He's already 30 and he is producing pretty much the same as Emmerton while Emmerton is younger, and much better defensively.