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So because when the nucks get hit they take penalties makes them a less physical team then Detroit? Tanner Glass alone is tougher then anyone on Detroit, Torres is a much more physical player then Cleary, Rypien despite his size beats up guys who are almost a foot taller, Bieksa takes dumb penalties (i think youre exaggerating the amount he takes), but that doesn,t change the fact that he hits like Stuart but fights on top of that. Then you talk about how injury prone they are like the wings aren't. Cleary, Franzen, Kronwall are extremely injury prone and some of the wings more physical guys. Its one thing to say the wings can take a lot which they can, but they are not a tougher team (in hockey tougher teammeans more physical, tougher to play aganist, will wear you down) then pretty much every team in the league. We have alot of skilled guys and we win but people need to stop coming up with these ridiculous statements about the wings being tough because theyre just plain and simple not built that way. If we had 2 or Abdelkaders in the line up maybe, because he is pretty much our only physical forwards consistently. And I would trade Miller for Glass straight up anyday, Glass can fill a role on a team and provide some toughness, Miller really does nothing special out there, Miller doesn't provide what Glass does at all. Agreed 100%, he can play hockey, is fast and would fight 30 times a season

You dont think Schenn is around 230? Hes pretty damn big out there this season I believe it

Meh I think the few games he would be in he could provide something Draper can't. I know we won't get rid of Drapes but Hordi could add an element to this team, I don't reaslly want him but if he were to somehow get signed here as the 13th I wouldn't care

I dont know about that. The team we had in 09 probably should've won but they were worn down physically. If we had more physical presence and balance on the team we could've worn Pittsburg down and their advantage would not have been as huge. Even if you look at Mccarty as a bottom 6 grinder who fights on occasion, the wings have always had a guy capable of enforcing on the team because Mac was that guy. If you don't call him an enforcer fine, but he was for sure a capable and willing guy who could enforce

You can't really make an argument about the Nucks being softer then Detroit, lets get real here. Their top line hass Burrows who is an agitator but will still throw his weight around and fight occasionally, second line is anchored by Kesler who is a physical guy and will fight a bit, 3rd line has Malhotra and Torres who are both physical guys and the 4th line has some combo of Glass, Rypien, Bolduc maybe etc. Their defense is pretty tough too with Bieksa and company. The wings aren't as tough as the canucks, far from it

On the leafs boards they talk about him being nearly 235 and hes listed as 230 on the leafs official site, whereas Abby is only listed at 212. Schenn only has an inch on him though

I've never once said we automatically win if we have an enforcer in the line up, what I am saying is that Detroit has always had a person capable of enforcing if need be when they've won the cup. I'm not arguing you have to have anforcers at all, I'm just saying anti enforcer people need to cut it out with "the wings have proven they can win without one" argument because thats just plain and simple not true. As for the 02 team. Mccarty was a heavyweight fighter who could enforce the game, he was just a very good one offensively as well by fighter standards. 5 goals however isn't exactly great offense, I can find you enforcers who had 5 goals in a season and are considfered nothing more then enforcers. Hordichuk had 4 last year but he is for sure an enforcer. No, its not proof of that at all. Its proof that when all the anti enforcer people say the wings have proved they can win without one it isn't actually true. Do I tihnk the wings can win without an enforcer? Sure, it just hasn't happened yet so that argument is valid for anti fighting people. I do however think that the wings need toughness in their bottom 6 to win, even guys like a prime Maltby or Abdelkader who throw their weight all the time and piss the other team off.

As the 13th forward? Sure why not, it would be ahell of a lot better then Downey being here

I would hardly even say Abby lost that fight, if you look they both land about the same amount of punches then Schenn gets the take down. Abby is going to be a Dallas Drake clone. 40 points, some fights and some big, sometimes dirty hits. I love it

No but if you actually think the wings have proven they can win a cup without an enforcer then you are insane. Its just a fact, live with it and stop bringing it up when your main argument is detroit has won in the past without an enforcer because its just not true, plain and simple.

Abby really didn't do that bad at all, if you look at punches landed, besides the take down Abby was pretty well even with him. and Schenn is like 235 pound, Abby will become a solid middle weight fighter

Well I think the wings have proven they can win without an enforcer is an absurd statement because they never actually have. EVER. but anti enforcer people love to say it when its not true. I never said that they can't win a cup without one but its just fact that they never have so you can't really use that argument. And its different then saying that Maltby thing because Maltby is a person but an enforcer is a role on the team. I don't think we would've won those 4 cups without players like Maltby because he used to be physical, ******* that filled an important role on the team.

Hmm what happened before that incident or did Cammy just get pissed and try to goon the rookie for no reason? Stupid of Cammy but Neiderietter looked like he dove on the slash so that he wouldnt have to deal with cammy.

Agreed. Rosehill needs to get out of Toronto, he is a pretty good hockey player but in his role with Brown and Orr ahead of him he isn't needed there. He can skate as fast if not faster then Miller, throws big hits and would fight 30 times a year. I'm surprised he hasn't got a shot at the NHL full time yet. And I just wanna say one thing, all the anti enforcer people who say the wings can win without toughness in the line up, I would love proof of that because there hasn't been a cup won without a straight up enforcer in the line up for the wings. I'm not saying I want someone like Downey who I think is past his prime but I would like to see us draft some 6'4 crazy sob and put him in the line up. I just don't get how anti enforcer people can say the wings have proven time and time again they can win without a goon when it has never actually happeened

Alright Owens, keep proving yourself tonight and earn some call ups this year, fight Mike Brown (who is prett ymuch the exact same player) and throw a big hit or 7

My thoughts, Mursak is an NHLer its only a matter of time. Lashoff is a mean guy, he was throwing some cross checks infront that we rarely get to see Kindl isnt as bad as people let on and has sick hands for a defenseman Our third line is going to be unreal

An enforcer as the 13th forward wouldn't take playing time away from any developing young players because having young talented guys as the 13th forward is dumb. When injuries come or we're in a tough game we can insert an enforcer. Explain how that hurts the development of young players?

I find that if you buy a composite you have to get as good one or it wont last. The compsites for less then 100 bucks and youre better off buying a nice wood stick. Not a sherwood PMP but a nice 40 dollar wooden bauer can compete with low end composites. The puck will feel like its jumping off your stick the first time you shoot but it is sometimes harder to recieve a pass and you have abetter feel with woodys. I would say you should pay 150+ for a composite or youre not going to get your moneys worth

And how many of those teams that won 4 stanley cups had an enforcer on them? I'll give you a hint, it starts with f and ends with our

Yeah and Konstantinov wasn't a motivation in 98 either, they just wanted to win the cup to begin with A 39 year old throwing his body on the line and doing anything to win his first cup would be a pretty big motivation I'm sure, do you think before you type?

I think the wings should take a risk in the 3rd round or so on an enforcer type, someone who could potentially become a macarty. Instead of the small high risk Euro or the potential thrid line center, take a risk oin a Lucic or Macarty type

Was hoping he could have improved his game a bit and came back a bit better then last time but it didn't work out, this position needs to addressed through the draft I'm starting to think, not a guy who is past his prime that no one else wants.

Abby, Janik, Ericcson and Bert might have to play tough tonight against a line up that has Boogard, Prust, Callahan and Avery. Hopefully these guys aren'tt aking many runs at guys like Tatar etc

No its not to help you. Mac in 2008 could play good hockey? The guy had been retired for a season then came out of retirement to help toughen our team up. We weren't gonna put Downey in the line up and Macarty but Macarty in 2008 wasn't there to be a guy who could fight and score. He was there to enforce and thats about it. And yeah Drake wasn't an enforcer but he was a guy who could fight and solid secondary toughness behind someone like Drake or Macarty.

Oh I remember why Downey didn't play any playoff games that year, because we had 2 other guys who could fight playing for us that playoff with Drake and Macarty. An old washed up Mac that played 18 games that playoff I beleive. Are you going to argue Mac was good at hockey at that point in the 2008 playoffs?