newfy

He's probably a top 7 true powerforward today. Iggy, Getz, Mike Richards, Hartnell, are all better now but I would take him over Hartnell. Kesler if you consider him a powerforward is probably a bit better as well but either way Downie is only 22 and he's right there in the top 7

Whatever happened to Hollweg. He played for the leafs and was a little ball of hate out there 24/7. He just kinda dropped off the face of the earth though lol

He'll break 50 points next year and probably 25 goals while keeping his PIM and fight cont really high. He's a rare breed but because I would rather have him then Hudler I overrate him..

Why because he's smart enough to play within the rules and give his team more salary cap? As long as this rule is in place you can't really hate on a GM for using to his advantage. Anyone saying this is dumb really needs to stop being hypocrites, look at the Z deal

Yeah ever since Tampa won the cup they have had good offense but no back end or goalie. Steve needs to do something to bring in a solid top 4 defenseman and Hedman needs to make strides this year. If they do this I think they make playoffs

Exactly, if the wings had someone like this he would have a cult following.

Well you say thats his only asset about anyone who has been in a fight before pretty much. His stats are nearly identical to Lilja's but because he can fight really good he's a pylon who should be in Grand Rapids. And Downie is a 22 year old 22 goal scorer who can fight and piss off opponents, do I overrate him? Maybe but thats just because a lot of ppl on this board underrate him. Our board is all goo goo ga ga over Abby but he's older then Downie, Downie hits just as hard and fights just as much and Downie has a 20 goal season and everyone talks about how Abby is gonna be a very solid player. Downie is going to be one of the better power forwards in this league in 3 years, he's already one of the better ones

The team may not need it but Holland wants another defenseman. The argument isn't really about what the team needs its more about the fact that people here are saying he is a good 4th defenseman for grand rapids etc. The hate for a guy just because he is tough is retarded on this board

No he isn't a pylon thats the thing. The fact that he can fihgt makes posters like you say he is. I never said fighting equals good or valuable. I said be able to fight is a plus for sure. If 2 guys are the same skill level obviously the guy who can fight is going to be a more valuable player. Thats why Lucic is making 4 million bucks a season already when he has only ever scored 17 goals. I compliment guys toughness when they are tough. I compliment Datsyuk for having the best hands in the league and I will give compliments where they are deserved. Its quite silly how you don't seem to think grit and tenacity are part of the game really? Yes I give Franzen s*** for not laying the body because if he did he would be a dominating force. Is he good? ya Could he be better? Oh hell ya. A 6'3 hockey player shouldn't be letting up on hits. Sorry I didn't realize Detroits system didn't allow hitting when the other team has the puck... Wow I can't believe you actually said that. Hitting and playing Detroits system are not mutually exclusive whatsoever. And just so you know, Anaheim did exactly what you just said. WCF appearance, a cup and a finals appearance. We're not talking about his salary, we'ret alking about his play. Is he overpaid? Yeah but not by that much. He is definitely on par with Lilja

Yeah he was on the receiving end in that fight but to be fair he stepped on 2 sticks so he couldn't really get his feet set at all. I like that we have someone on the team that will go out and send a message to the other team if we're losing. Abby went out there right after Yandle and tried sparking the team. To top it all off, he's good enough to play a regular shift.

Thank you lol. I'm not the only one who sees players who always try to hurt others as part of the game. As of right now I've seen Abby throw some big hits and the ones which were somewhat penalty worthy he has answered the bell. This goes a long way respect wise in this league even if he doesn't win his fights.

Clutterbuck and Kaleta are both pretty much the same player. And yeah I don't like Clutterbuck, a guy who throws hits, plays rough and causes some fights because I like to see fights? Great logic. Its embarrassing the way guys like Kaleta, Cooke, Ott etc play when really 15 years ago they would have been killed in the NHL. Players like that who try to hurt other players don't belong in the game.

Meh, I have no respect for guys who play liket hat and won't back it up when they deserve too. Ott has taken runs at his fair share of knees but doesn''t like to back it up, Clutterbuck is the same way. Hopefully Abby is not because that is embarrassing having someone do that and not face the consequences like a man

I can see him becoming a Clutterbuck with more offense easily. Clutterbuck doesn't fight much but Abby has shown he will if he has too which is more respectable for someone throwing big hits(sometimes somewhat dirty)

And then theres the others on this board who think anyone who fights is just a goon that can't play hockey. You seem to fall into that category because youre clearly ignoring the stats. So youre saying Lilja was a 1.25 million dollar liability every time he steps on the ice for Detroit? And by the way, Franzen doesn't even hit so yeah he is a *****. You'll never see me call Stuart a ***** or Kronwall, but Franzen yes big time.

I think after this post season Abby has the potential to be one of the games harder hitters. He's built like a brick s*** house and behind Shane Doan I think he was the biggest hitter these past playoffs. Maybe Abby saw these past playoffs he can actually play that game in the NHL and not just the AHL. He had a few fights and a tonne of big hits, hopefully the playoffs carry over to this next season.

I think this happened with this past offseason actually

Murray always does have hits that look extremely painful to whoever is on the receiving end. And I'm really surprised to see votes for Kronwall after this past season? People who don't watch games I'm guessing?

No it has to do with the fact that whenever a tough Defenseman is brought up as an acceptable replacement for Lilja, he automatically becomes a terrible player. Walker is not so bad that he couldn't replace Lilja. Look at the stats, Walker had less hits but he is a more punishing player infront of the net, in the corners and has more power behind his hits, Walker has more blocked shots, give aways are the same with Walker playing more games and this is all compared to pre-consussion Lilja. The stats are pretty much the same except plus minus which is caused by a bad team around Walker. Then take into account that Walker is one of the best fighting defenseman in the league and you come to the conclusion that he is definitely a good replacement for Lilja

This past season Kronwall isn't even top 10. Did he even have a big hit all year? Stuart had a nice one on Anisimov and when he hits it looks like its to hurt. Stuart is strong along the boards and the corners as well whereas you'll never see Kronwall do much in the corners hitting wise. I voted Sutton, Ryan Wilson is a huge hitter though and given a few years will be right among the top in the league I believe. I still can't believe he is in the NHL already, he seemed horrible defensively in Sarnia a few years back.

Yeah because I said they have to be tough to be a good defenseman? Being tough is a plus and is a style of play. Lilja attempted to play a tough game, which he did fairly well before the concussion. It just so happens that Walker is tougher. I never get the hate for tough defenseman on this board. Seriously, its like a defenseman drops the gloves and he's automatically hurting the team, or he's a big hitter so that means he's always going out of position to make hits on the opposing forwards. Lilja is not anything special as a player and Walker would fill that role perfectly if he were to come here. What does Walker do? Give the puck away too much? Guess what.. Lilja was apt to do that all the time. Everyone talks about how great Lilja is like he will be impossible to replace but really he's your fairly average bottom pairing defender that found a nice role on the PK

Lilja and Walker are very compareable players stats wise now, if Walker had time to refine his game with guys like Lidstrom around him like Lilja did, Walker would be much better. Have you ever watched Walker play or just look at the statS? As for the fighting thing, no it doesn't make a player better but it adds a dimension to the team that makes him more valuable then someone who doesn't fight. His toughness makes him more valuable. Do you think Pronger would be considered as good as he is without his net clearing ability and intimidation? No he wouldn't

The addition of Zherdev takes that spot I think?

Matt walker played for Tampa, Lilja for the Red Wings, youre really going to compare their plus minus? Your stats don't take into account teh fact that Walker is much more effective clearing the net front, a harder hitter, and is probably the second best fighting defenseman in the league behind Carkner. If Walker came to the wings his stat line would be much better then Liljas, and Lilja isn't even a #6 defenseman

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