newfy

That is exactly what we were arguing about. How do you expect him to tap into some NHL potential when he won't play a role in the NHL at all until he is 30 years old? and shortly after 30 is close to 35. 33 is the age I said which is shortly after 30 and close to 35. What kind of potential are you talking about this guy having? The potential to be a top 6 center in the AHL, then I agree he has potential but since this is a red wings board he has nearly 0 potential with the red wings.

Yeah, even this season Cleary was worth it. He played through 2 torn meniscus just because our team was in such bad injury trouble. Hockey isn't all about points you know, cleary brings intangibles. On second thought I hope we trade Cleary for a pick and let Ilari Filpulla come and be better then Cleary because he has lots of potential Looks like someone else has noticed that Finnish boner of yours there finnish wing. And crymson isn't even a guy that "hates" europeans and he noticed.

Yeah like I said Franzen in playoffs is a different story. Horton hasn't got a shot to show what he can do in the playoffs so its hard to say. But based on regular season I would gladly trade Mule for Horton straight up.

Way to read my post, once again proving my signature. He won't play any role at all in teh NHL til he's 30 is what I'm saying.. Now whats in your finnish water over there that is going to allow him to stop his body from declining shortly after the age of 30? I would expect it from a tough North American player to be able to play through a decline in his body strength but a soft fin, not so much.

Way to avoid my argument and reply to something completely different. Probably realized that I actually have an argument that you can't argue against so you just blow it off and don't reply. I'm still waiting on that list of guys who play in the NHL for the first time at the age of 30 who amount to anything... Wow for someone who bases everything they say on argument enough to quote me in their sig you sure are ducking my last post

Horton has put up more then 60 points twice and 57 points once. Franzen had 59, 38 and 30 for his top scoring with better linemates. Horton on a bad team has put up high points consistently since he was a rookie.

I've said my point a million times. He will be getting his first play in the NHL when he is about 30. How much is he going to improve from age 30 until his body starts declining at about 32 or 33? I've said it a million times youre just too dumb to pick up on what I've been saying because youre busy going on about how I hate Europeans. Like someone said earlier Larionov did it, but thats different back then he had to play in the USSR, Flip Sr could've been drafted but he wasn't and is just coming over now. He's been signed to center a line in GR and will likely hardly play in the NHL. Once he adjusts to NA hockey he will be fairly old and its hard tot each an old dog new tricks. That is why iflip hardly has potential.

He'll be 30 before he even has a chance at a regular spot in an NHL line up. And yeah Draper has potential with his speed too turn around next season and score some goals and be better then he was this year. And no he hasn't been trained in the best league in the world the NHL, and he hasnt played against the best competition. Anyways I'm done arguing with you since he's finnish and your boner for finnish players even when they don't have the potential to be good NHLers is ridiculous and you won't change your mind on this. Back on topic: I thought this video was pretty cool so you guys can take al ook and see what kind of player Zenon is and the other one he seems like a pretty cool guy.

Yeah, every single player has potential, if thats what you've been saying when youre arguing with me then youre even stupider then I thought. At 28 you can have potential but you have next to no chance to meet it because you haven't been trained in a real league long enough. Iflip has potential but he has next to no chance of achieving anything in the NHL and will most likely pan out to nothing. There we can agree tot hat and stop this argument then?

Don't compare a goalie to a forward first of all. Rafalski was 26 with NA experience and Franzen was given time to develop in Europe after he was drafted then came had enough time to adjust to the game and has had a few good seasons. Unfortunately Mule probably only has a few more good seasons ahead before he starts declining. So you can pretend you base all your arguments on facts and that mine have no facts behind them, but until you show me a guy who came and played his first NA hockey at the age of 29 and went on to be anything even remotely decent then you have no facts to support that guys still have potential when they are almost 30. I bet you wouldn't be saying he still has potential if we signed a Canadian playing in Europe at age 30 somewhere.

No everything skilled but doesn't produce is s***. A skilled guy that doesn't put up points provides nothing. Jason Williams is from near my hometown and I think he's useless, Ville leino is useless too. It doesn't matter wheere theyre from, you think I would hate a European tough guy on the wings or something? No I wouldn't. I would take a guy like Valabik or something any day. I'm not all about toughness, I'm all about balance and is what the wings need. Youre the one preaching about Finnish players all the time and how great and tough they are. I base all my arguments on facts. Who was the last player that came to the NHL at the age 29, with no north American experience, wasn't good enough to get drafted at his time and had a lot of good seasons worth getting excited about? By teh time Ifliip gets NHL adjusted his body will be on the decline. Theres a fact for you and you can't argue it because its true, by the age of about 32 players go downhill big time. And for the record I said soft skilled players like Sjorstrom. Not soft skilled Europeans like Sjorstrom, he's just the first one that popped into my head because my best friend who is a leafs fan always always complains about him. Just like that Wallin plug TO signed. Guys like that don't belong in this game. And yeah I talk about soft, Eauopeans a lot. Big deal, its fine if your continent has softer players then North America. Its kinda like someone who has a *** brother, they still accept them and like what they provide for the family but you would rather them be straight.

He could improve slightly fro better coaching etc in the NHL. But comparing a guy that is going to be 29 in his first NHL season to someone like Dats who played in the NHL, adjusted to the style of the game and still had time with prime years of his body left to play once he is adjusted. Comparing Datsyuk to a guy who didn't have the skills to get drafted, then played til he was 28 in a European league and isn't going to start NA hockey until he is 29 is a bit of a stretch. The guy is almost 30 without having played a single game in North America, if he gets better in GR next year he'll have a few seasons until his body really starts to go on the decline. He isn't superman his body isn't going to last forever even if he is a skilled player.

You are hte most foolish poster on this board. Not everything comes down to what country youre from and not every single player from finland is god like you seem to think. Iflip is fine if he is in GR, which is where he belongs because he is a soft European that has no potential. Let him set up guys like Mursak and Tatar in GR and I'm fine with it but don't think because he was your great Finnish league MVP that he's gonna all of a sudden have potential and become a great NHLer in a few years. Who was the last finnish league MVP to play for Detroit? Yeah he sure did a lot. I've never once said a European can't kill penalties retard, from what I've seen of Sjorstrom in Toronto he is a plug. Soft, skilled guys that don't put up points should not be what a team builds their 4th line out of. Players like that don't belong in the league. IFlip will be that type of player, Detroit doesn't need him so let him rot in the minors. I would rather have Mursak, or Tatar called up since Iflip is old and won't pan out to anything.

A 20 goal scorer who can lay big hits, is one of the most versatile guys in the league and would probably go through a wall for his teammates is worth that contract yes. People think because we've had some guys take discounts in the past that all contracts should be on that level. Around the league Cleary is a very good price for what he brings and won't be traded.

Yeah I would say the soft, skilled tpye guys that don't put up points in this league should be gone before enforcers are. Enforcers at least do something out there. Soft, skilled guys like Freddy Sjorstrom types that do nothing are the most useless of all hockey players. Yeah they can skate and fighter types are suually slower but they should be gone before the fighters are.

Well Tampa Bay is one of the tougher teams in the league so he isn't needed as much as he would be in Detroit. Konopka is one of about 3 heavyweights on Tampa so it wouldn't be bad if Stevie lost him for their team. Konopka is a free agent too so he might wanna get out of a place like Tampa and win some hockey games. Also Konopka is from Niagra falls so besides Toronto and Buffalo, Detroit is the closest place to his hometown.

Yeah just because you don't like that Orr fights but doesn't score goals you don't like him. How many leafs/ rangers games did youw atch last year in Finland. I guarantee I've seen more. And I do know something about iflip. He's 28 so his potential is gone, and we don't need a player like him. I would take Nystrom over Eaves but youre right Eaves over anyone else on that list for me. Nystrom has just as much goal scoring potential as Eaves with a tougher game.

And signed that finnish plug Filpulla with no potential at 28 years old. Yeah he does make mistakes Orr is a good all around player. Just as good as a guy like Draper at this point in his career but is also probably the second toughest guy in the league. He's one of the best at his role.

I didn't know about his defensive game but if its good then I've heard enough. 62% on faceoffs and a solid defensive guy that hits and fights. Thats a classic 4th line guy right there.

Holland said if Meech can't get a full time roster spot that e'll be traded. Boynton would be a very good guy to replace Lilly pads.

Nystrom and Konopka are my top 2 as well. Nystrom for the Drake role and Konopka to take over May role. The thing about Arty is that he has the potential to be a 20 goal scorer, be one of the hardest hitters in the league and a very good fighter. In the long run he could be the best signing out of them all because he could end up a second line player. Thats the only reason I would want Arty but I for sure want the other 2 here first. Does anyone else think Boynton is a possibility as our 6th defenseman? Chicago isn't exactly going to be able to sign a lot of their free agents.

Thats the thing though, hockey is a fast game and you might not know youre about to make a head hit but the guy lowers his head to make a move and puts it into your shoulder or something. A player doesn't deserve to miss possibly a whole season for something like that.

It really would be nice to have someone on the wings who is willing to step in like that when a cheap shot happens. If that was this last year after May was gone noone would've even done a thing. Our PP would've been our enforcer With a guy liek Konopka or May in the lineup we probably would've had a few guys willing to step in because they know someone has their back and a tough guy makes every one play a little tougher which is nice.

He's not really a specialist but he could be one day. Last year was his first full season in the NHL so he wouldn't be given that role yet even if he was worthy. You also wouldn't have him out there in those situations when you have Vinny L that is good on the draw and a great hockey player. There better not be a Maltby. He would just take up a spot of a guy who could play Maltbys role better then him. If we resign Malts but don't sign Burish, who is basically a tougher Maltby clone then I would be pissed. Burish isn't even my first choice of players to sign but over Maltby I would love him.

Miller. He sucked in playoffs and was an average 4th liner in the regular season. He brings nothing to the table AT ALL. I like the idea of Hnidy coming here for the 6th D spot, same with Jason Strudiwck. At forward like OP stated, there are a lot of possibilities. I want Nystrom, Asham, Arty, Burish or possibly take a flier on Chipchura. I think he has untapped potential to score goals in the future as well as fight. I don't see the love people on here have for Miller, he provides next to nothing except he can skate to take a 4th or 3rd line shift. Doesn't hit, fight, score many goals and he is not a phenomenal PK guy. The guys I listed all pretty much could kill penalties just as good. We need a change in our bottom 6 to wear down other teams, hopefully its made at the expense of Miller. Konopka would be a decent addition as well if we go more the fighter route then if we go Drake type guy.