mmamolo

I honestly I don't understand everyone's hatred for Holmstrom. Maybe hatred isn't the right word but I don't get why everyone rags on him so much. Holmstrom has 1 goal, 6 assists, and is a +1 through 17 games. Yeah, we'd all love his goals to be higher but he still creates havoc on the powerplay and still has a ton of worth to this team. Leino is off to essentially the worst possible start to the season. In 20 games Leino has 2 goals, 3 assists and is a -6. People always talk about how the Wings need to be tougher to play against and then when I read how people don't like that a hard nosed, tough player to play against guy like Holmstrom has 'taken away' a roster spot from someone like Leino, it just blows my mind. I never had nearly the same problem with Leino has a lot of posters here did. I wanted him to succeed and was actualyl glad he did well in Philadelphia. But there's a reason he did as well as he did, because he was insulated with big bodies who created space for him. In Buffalo, a prodominantly smaller team, it's tougher for him. Also, Leino is in the first year of a 6 year, $4.5M per year deal. I'm sure there are some out there who expect Zetterberg to put up that 40 goal/90 point production but I think the majority of people expect more the 30 goals/75-80 point production. When he's engaged he is capable of being a point per game player.

I agree that I wouldn't want to exchange Franzen for Semin. Although, I don't think I'm nearly as opposed to Semin (in general) as you are. There are people out there who want Semin, and that's fine, but if it were me who was trying to acquire Semin I would be doing so to add him to our scoring without the cost of trading Franzen. I'd do it in a way where Franzen would not be going the other way.

The Avs beat the Wings in the 1996 WC Finals. That would be the bitching that was being referred to

I thought Kronwall reacted late as well but I think he had committed to the turn and didn't look back to realize what Howard was doing. Everyone is messing up basic hockey stuff. Each goal last night was on the heels of a fundamental error by the Wings

Kronwall thought that Howard was going to play the puck passed Thornton so he curled up the boards in anticipation of the pass. Kronwall was reading Howard's movement towards the puck. Howard misread the play as it turned out he couldn't play the puck because of the trapezoid. Datsyuk's blown coverage on Pavelski is far worse if you ask me.

Yeah, I mean you're probably right. Some one noted in another thread that this situation feels similar to just prior to the Shanahan deal. Complacency is definitely an issue. I've been one that's wanted to wait and see where this team is at and then ideally make a move at the deadline. Problem is it may be too late by then. They need a jump start for sure. Also, to me this team needs a turn around more for Lidstrom's sake than for making the playoffs. There is no way Lidstrom shoudl retire after a crap season. He'd also feel as though they aren't competitive enough to stick around.

It's tough to see your top players missed assignments that are so incrdibly basic. People are saying the Wings need a roster shake up and that's fine but to me, there's a huge mental state issue because these guys are just not engaged in the game. Maybe a roster shakeup changes their mental approach but right now this team has the tools, they just aren't using them.

Goal 1 - Howard mis-judged the puck, Kronwall turned the wrong way, Lidstrom was slow on the transition, and worst of all Datsyuk didn't take Pavelski despite having more than enough time. Goal 2 - Decent pass by Clearly, Stuart joined the rush, Zetterberg either didn't recognize Stuart joined or was way too soft on that play. Zetterberg needs to know his time and space. 3 on 1, not much more Lidstrom or Howard could do. Goal 3 - Although Ericsson didn't do much to prevent it he wasn't the main problem. Hudler didn't recognize Vlasic was driving all the way to the net. Hudler was soft on his approach and then turned away as Vlasic drove around the net. Howard also bit hard but Vlasic was left all alone by Hudler Goal 4 - Kindl was slow off the hop at the offensive blue line. Filppula was the third man back but didn't have a man and Zetterberg was behind on his coverage of Mitchell. Goal 5 - Conklin looked like he hadn't played in 10 games...oh wait, he hasn't

I would honestly vomit. Jeff Carter has to be one of the most overrated players in the game. Yes, he gets his points but people on this board are frustarated by the perimeter play of the current crop of forwards...just wait for Carter. The guy has no heart and will never be truly elite in this league. Stevkraus - even as a joke, it pains me so much to see you make such an ugly suggestion.

I've been holding off on fully being annoyed by this team because the season was still young. As someone noted above we are approaching the 20 game mark. Thanksgiving and the 20 game mark are both right around the corner. 85% of teams not in a playoff spot at those benchmarks don't make it come spring time. Depiste the awful 6 game losing streak last night was the tipping poitn for me. I honestly cannot remember feeling so dejected and honestly embarrassed while watching the Wings. The breakdowns in their d zone are predictable. Everyone can claim the Wings have been working hard but I don't buy it. Working hard doesn't just mean skating as fast as you can. It means paying attention to detail and being mentally and physically engaged in the game. A lot of players are missing key defensive assignments - stuf, as a hockey player, you learn when you're 12. The first goal last night was absolutely embarrassing. All four players (Howard, Kronwall, Lidstrom, and Datsyuk) made key mistake - most notably Kronwall and Datsyuk. That's four of the Wings' best defensive players being lackadaisical at the worst, deflating time.

I wish the prospects section of LGW was more visited as well. I check it out from time to time but the conversations are usually fairly slow paced. Hopefully more posters hop over there more often. I don't think Sheahan is/was a bust. I think some assumed he had better offensive tools than he did. I don't think he's one of the Wings' top prospects I definitely think he has a great shot at being in the NHL one day. I want to see him go pro and focus all of his time on hockey before I fully judge him one way or the other.

Do you mean like when Datsyuk set Helm up, on a 2 on 1, with an empty net and Helm whiffed? Yeah, that seems like it would work well. I'm only joking. I don't mind seeing them out there together and although not in an offensive situation Datsyuk and Helm have started PK situations together to have two centres on the ice. Then Datsyuk changes.

ha wow, talk about cherry picking stats and trying to make what I wrote sound worse to suit your stance. I didn't list a single player that was older than 27. All of the players I put on that list were 27 and younger. So if you want to sit there and cry about how youth is 25 and under then go ahead but if you had any intelligence you'd notice that youth, to me, is 27 and under. Noting players who have had good starts to the season is all fine and good. Especially when you're comparing them to current Red Wings since the Wings have started this season struggling to score goals. Also, if you're going to list players and their ages, point totals and drafts, you should at least give all of the information - don't be lame and cherry pick only the information that suits your side. 5 of the 11 players you noted were 1st round draft picks: Craig Smith 22 - 14pts - 4th Round Nugent-Hopkins 18 - 14pts - 1st Round Luke Adam 21 - 13pts - 2nd Round Cody Hodgson 21 - 8pts - 1st Round Landeskog 18 - 8pts - 1st Round Coturier 18 - 8pts - 1st Round Roman Horak 20 - 6pts - 5th Round Ryan Johansen 19 - 7pts - 1st Round Stephane Da Costa 22 - 5pts - Undrafted Colin Greening 25 - 8pts - 7th Round Adam Henrique 21 - 10pts - 3rd Round Also, it's not like all of these players are doing as amazingly as you'd like people to believe. Listen, I'm not opposed to the Wings having more youth (even if it's how you want to define youth, younger than 25) but don't act like the Wings don't have any.

Of that list Kyle Brodziak is the only guy I think would actually be worth while. I'd much rather see money distributed differently and the Wings sign some one like David Jones from the Avs. He's 27 years old, has a current cap hit of $2.5M, potted 27 goals last year, and currently has 7 goals, 4 assists in 18 games. I know some of you will not his injury history and that's fine. But he looked good in 77 games last season.

I thought the same last night. Also, I'm betting it's 2 games. I could even see it just being 1 game. The fact Kronwall came back in the same game, and Shanahan does consider the effect (injury) of the hit to be a factor, says something. Also, the track record for boarding/hit from behinds was already documented in this thread. It's kind of funny to me that the NHL sees fit to punish hits to the head more severely than hits from behind. Or at least that's the way it seems so far. To me hits from behind are far more dangerous because they can lead to all types of serious injuries including concsussions.

I can understand wanting a stud player who is 25ish but those players don't come around very often. Add to the fact the Wings seldomnly have a top 20 first round choice it's almost impossible to get a player like that. I just think it's inaccurate for people to say the Wings need to infuse their line up with more youth, because they already have done that, when what they really mean is they want a 25 year all-star. But hey, I'm not saying I don't want a 25 year old all-starr either

What's all this about Suter and Parise being friends and wanting to play together? I'm not saying that it's untrue, but I would have thought if it were true that it would be much more known. I honestly have never heard that. If it's true and they ultimately end up together, on any team, the Wings have just as good, if not better, a chance of getting them based on cap space etc.

Claiming the Wings need more youth is the most over used sentiment in hockey these days...well, that and the Wings are going to take a big step back this year. Take a look at the ages of several current roster players: Filppula 27 Hudler 27 White 27 Miller 27 Eaves 27 Helm 24 Abdelkader 24 Kindl 24 Emmerton 23 Brunnstrom 26 Ericsson 27 Some of these guys are regulars and others may be fringe players but working towards trying to become regulars. But the fact that people like to claim that the Wings need more youth in their line up need to take a minute and think before they just spit out canned responses to try and sound hockey smart. Also, if you had Smith on this roster instead of Commodore, which I'm neither for or against, think about the situation we'd be in right now as White has gotten hurt. You'd see a line up of: Lidstrom - Ericsson Kronwall - Kindl Stuart - Smith That's three inexperienced defensemen - no matter which pairings you choose. At least Commodore brings experience and is a bit of a reclamation project that potentially could work out well despite his lack of speed. This is exactly what you'd like to see from a 6/7 guy. The only thing he has done badly that has stuck out to me was last night's delay of game penalty. Considering he's only played 3 games now I think he's looked fine. Also, to the OP complaining he only played 6:40 that was because the Wings spent 15 full minutes on the PP. Commodore is averaging 10:14 TOI per game. Here's a breakdown of his TOI this season: Nov 15 '11 DET @ STL 6:40 Nov 5 '11 ANA @ DET 13:06 Nov 3 '11 CGY @ DET 10:57 That looks pretty good to me - what a 6/7 d-man should be playing.

I agree that Datsyuk doesn't look as sharp as he normally does. His overall game has been pretty good (relative to himself, not other players) but the biggest thing is he's been making some pretty terrible turnovers. The one last night where he made a drop pass to nobody at the blueline was really ugly. Datsyuk is a notoriously slow starter. It takes him time to get his game going to the level he can play so I wouldn't worry about it. The good thing is he is still creating some opportunities and getting some points while his game isn't at top level.

The Wings need another big win tonight as they're facing a tough test going up against two hot goalies in Khabibulin and Lehtonen this weekend in back-to-back games. We'll see exactly where the Wings' PK is after tonight as well.

Bingo Nope The colour red is a range of colour based on science that humans have adopted and defined. The true colour of red is fact. Your perceptive (based on eye sight, perception, interpretation etc.) can be coined an 'opinion'. However, that does not imply that your opinion is now fact. Just like in the example, the ball may appear to be blue to you but the ball has not become blue. It is still in fact red. Unless the ball goes through a physical change it's still red. Besides, I don't think you're sitting on LGW cheering for the Blue Wings...

I know over the last year or two a lot of posters on this board have wanted to see Holmstrom on the 4th line but I think you've got to like the way he's been playing so far this year. I think people underrate how much space and trouble he creates when he's out on the ice with Datsyuk. To me, Holmstrom is so much more useful on this team when he is playing with Datsyuk than when he is on the fourth line. If I were drawing up the lines I would have: Filppula/Cleary - Datsyuk - Holmstrom Cleary/Filppula - Zetterberg - Franzen Hudler - Helm - Abdelkader Bertuzzi - Emmerton - Brunnstrom/Miller Or Hudler/Filppula - Datsyuk - Holmstrom Filppula/Hudler - Zetterberg - Franzen Cleary - Helm - Bertuzzi Abdelkader - Emmerton - Brunnstrom/Miller

That's exactly what I would want to see. That or switch Hudler and Filppula. Despite how badly Cleary and Bertuzzi are playing I think they'd fit well with Helm and if they got down to a grinding style they'd be better off for it. I think Cleary and Bertuzzi sometimes struggle when they are put with skill guys.

As much as that is true in certain instances, to be completely fair there are posters who go as far off the deep end in the opposite direction with the blind hatred for Hudler. It's kind of like there are two types of stalkers. Eve is the love stricken stalker and the blind hateful ones are the types of stalkers that are obsessed with anger over their subject.

Obviously people (fans) are frustrated but I don't really understand the outcry for trades. I think teams that ride these sorts of funks and come out of them as a unit build character and drive throughout the course of the season. Of course there are teams who get in these funks and seemingly don't get out of them over the course of the season but to me there is just way too much talent on this team for things to continue this way. I would much rather see the Wings make a deal from a position of strength than from a position of weakness which is where they currently are. These are the lines I would prefer to see next game: Franzen - Datsyuk - Holmstrom Hudler - Zetterberg - Filppula Cleary - Helm - Bertuzzi Miller - Abdelkader/Emmerton - Eaves/Abdelkader Franzen is snake bitten but a guy like him needs to keep shooting until the puck goes in. Putting Datsyuk with him should give him more shooting opportunities. I think Holmstrom has been unfairly judged as having played poorly this year (at times) and would create havoc in front of the net that may help Franzen even more. Hudler has also not played nearly as badly as some have suggested. Both Filppula and Hudler are reluctant shooters at times but have always worked well together. Cleary has been playing injured and putting this line together with a focus on grinding and getting pucks to the net probably fits his, and Bertuzzi's, needs more appropriately at the moment. Miller is underrated on these boards. My first choice would be to see Miller - Abdelkader - Eaves but if Eaves is unavailable I'd go Miller - Emmerton - ABdelkader. Abs is far more useful on the wing and would work well with Miller and Emmerton. Abdelkader isn't at a point yet where he produces nearly enough to play third line minutes (in my mind anyway) so I think he fits in better on the fourth with occassion spot duty on the third line as needed.