mmamolo

Although I understand the roster restrictions and cap implications of the Wings current situation, I would really hate to the Wings give up on Leino. I'm one of the posters here that still believes he has it in him to turn into a quality player in this league - albeit not anytime in the short term future. It sucks that Holland's hand may be forced and if it is I'd hate to see Leino land in Toronto and one day turn into a player. I live in the Toronto area and can't handle all the know-it-all Leaf fans. That being said, Poni for Williams and Leino is a decent deal. Not great, maybe not even good, but it's decent.

Every one has been talking about potential forward lines, defence pairings and who should be starting in net. I'm probably guilty of that as well. But one thing I can't seem to find much information on is how the Wings cap situation will be affected with the return of Franzen (and potentialyl Lilja). Can anyone shed some light on how it works? What moves may have to be done? etc.

ha whatever you say...

Bud, as nice as all that sounds, the cap is still in effect after the trade deadline. It's only in the playoffs that the cap disappears.

With Williams Returning and Holmstrom/Franzen still out: Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Cleary/Bertuzzi Cleary/Bertuzzi - Filppula - Williams Draper - Helm - Eaves May/Leino -Miller - Maltby Leino/May With Holmstrom returning early next week and Franzen still out: Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Holmstrom Williams - Zetterberg - Cleary Miller - Filppula - Maltby/Eaves/Leino Draper - Helm - Eaves/Maltby/May Leino, May With Franzen returning: Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Holmstrom Franzen - Zetterberg - Cleary Miller/Leino - Filppula - Williams Draper - Helm - Eaves Maltby, Miller/Leino, (May waived)

ha ok now I'm confused again. I know that when a player goes on LTIR he doesnt fully disappear from the cap and that you can only replace him with someone of equal or lesser value. However, I think the way it works (once on LTIR) is that your cap hit is prorated. Salary/193=Daily Cap Hit Daily Cap Hit *Days on LTIR=LTIR Allowance You also subtract what replacements may have for Daily Cap Hits as well. That's how I've udnerstood it anyways. I don't know if it's right though

Ok, so here's how I think it all makes sense. I made some assumptions along the way but I think this all works out. Assumptions: 1. All of Bertuzzi, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Cleary, Holmstrom, Williams, Leino, Filppula, Miller, Maltby, Draper, Helm, Eaves, Abdelkader, May, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, Lebda, Meech, Howard, and Osgood have counted against the cap every day through out this season. (a 24 man roster so that this is overly conservative). If summed up the total daily cap hit of this roster is $282,078. 2. Any call ups (i.e Janik, Ritola, Newbury, Kindl etc) are negligible against the overall cap or fall within the range calculated for Franzen's LTIR. 3. 193 Days in Season. 120 Days to date. 73 Days Remaining. 4. Daily Cap Allowance = $294,301 5. Franzen returned , Abdelkader was sent to GR, and May was waived. All happening today. Total Cap=$56.8M Daily Allowance= $56.8M/193 Days = $294,301 per day Based on assumption (1) to date the Wings would have spent (against the cap, not actual salary paid out)=120days*$282,078=$33,849,360. Based on Assumption (4) to date teams are allowed to have spent up to=120Days*$294,301=$35,316,062. By now dropping Abdelkader to GR, waiving May, and adding Franzen back to our active roster our daily cap hit is $295,573 over the course of the remaining 73 Days. =73 Days *$295,573=$21,576,829 Cap Spent to Date + Cap To Be Spent Over Remainder of Season = $33,849,360+$21,576,829=$55,426,189 What this implies is that over the course of the entire season we are still cap compliant. If Lilja were to return we'd still have plent of space (over the course of the entire season, not daily space) to insert him into our line up. The only issue at that point would be roster size.

I only removed 3 - Abdelkader, May, and Lilja. Who'd you remove as the fourth? I mean I get that we could remove another roster player and get under the daily cap allowance - that's obvious. However, who would realistically be removed? Also, as another poster pointed out apparently we're able to be above the daily cap allowance due to LTIR and being below the daily allowance earlier in the season.

I see what you mean. So ignoring Lilja's potential return, the fact that even with the additions throughout the year of May and Miller and other call ups the fact that we were under the daily cap allowance (with injuries) now that players are coming back we can be over the daily allowance so long as that at the end of the year the sum of all of our daily allowances does not exceed the annual cap figure ($56.8M) we're cool. Right?

Well, yeah, you're right the easiest way to accomplish meeting the daily cap figure would be just to drop an additional player and trim the roster to 22. If you refer to the list below you can see the daily cap hits of each player. The second column represents who I'd imagine we'd have on our roster once everyone returns (except Lilja). As you can see, with those 23 guys we're still over our daily allowance. So unless an additional player were cut/waiver/whatever I don't see how it'll work out. That being said, I don't know how LTIR allowances/relief works (if at all). Roster Daily Cap Hit 1 Nicklas Lidstrom » D $38,601 $38,601 2 Pavel Datsyuk » F $34,715 $34,715 3 Henrik Zetterberg » F $31,520 $31,520 4 Brian Rafalski » D $31,088 $31,088 5 Johan Franzen » F $20,490 $20,490 6 Brad Stuart » D $19,430 $19,430 7 Niklas Kronwall » D $15,544 $15,544 8 Valtteri Filppula » F $15,544 $15,544 9 Daniel Cleary » F $14,508 $14,508 10 Tomas Holmstrom » F $11,658 $11,658 11 Kris Draper » F $8,204 $8,204 12 Jason Williams » F $7,772 $7,772 13 Todd Bertuzzi » F $7,772 $7,772 14 Chris Osgood » G $7,340 $7,340 15 Andreas Lilja » D $6,477 LTIR 16 Jonathan Ericsson » D $4,663 $4,663 17 Kirk Maltby » F $4,577 $4,577 18 Justin Abdelkader » F $4,404 GR 19 Ville Leino » F $4,145 $4,145 20 Jimmy Howard » G $3,713 $3,713 21 Brett Lebda » D $3,368 $3,368 22 Darren Helm » F $3,106 $3,106 23 Patrick Eaves » F $2,591 $2,591 24 Derek Meech » D $2,504 $2,504 25 Brad May » F $2,591 waived 26 Drew Miller » F $2,720 $2,720 Daily Cap Allocation $295,573 Annual Cap $56,800,000 Max Daily Allowance $294,301

Well, from what I understand is that it works on a day to day basis. You, obviously, can't be over the daily cap allowance at any point during the season. There are 193 days in the season. With a $56.8M cap for the year that translates into a daily payroll of $294,401. Once all of the forwards return (Franzen included, ABdelkader sent to GR, and May waived) the Wings would have a daily payroll of $295,573. However, what I don't udnerstand is the cap relief that they may be entitled to due to Franzen's injury. If ppl care, you can refer to Red Wings - Cap Geek to see the daily tracking of the Wings.

Despite being direct competitors tonight, welcome to the board. I gotta say man, Hornqvist has been a beast. 20+ goals and 30+ pts in about 50 games for a whopping 700k is outrageous. I've been equally impressed with Franson. Granted his last name makes me think he's a poor man's version of Johan, he's still looking solid. Tonight should be a sweet game to watch. Ideally the Wings pull it out but for that to happen our D needs to retighten. Wings 3 - Pred 2 Datsyuk, Bertuzzi, Lidstrom - Hornqvist, Weber

I know this thread is a little tongue in cheek but in all seriousness I think the Preds are a really well run organization. They are one of the few teams in the league that can do so much with so little. They consistently have a trimmed payroll and rarely ever can they afford to bring in the so called stars of the league but they always produce a competitive, entertaining team. Plus, they always seem to produce strong goaltenders...well, at leat they're strong for a little while

As much as I like Franzen I like the Detroit Red Wings more. So the selfish side of me wants Franzen to have no part in the Olympics (that's assuming it'd be more beneficial for Detroit for him to sit idle). However, this is a guy who is in the prime of his career and with injuries, or anything else that could get f***ed between now and the next Olympics, you've got to take your shots when you get them. Plus, I'm sure for Swedish players playing on the Olympic team with Lidstrom would be a huge deal for them. Problem is the only way he could get on the roster is as an injury sub. The obvious person to look to for an injury would be Peter Forsberg. That being said, on NHL on TSN last night, it was reported that Forsberg has played in three straight games and is looking solid. So this discussion may be irrelevant. At the end of the day although I do wish the best for Franzen (to play and be successful in the Olympics and with the Wings) I would prefer his top priority remain the DRW.

Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Cleary Bertuzzi - Filppula - Williams Draper - Helm - Eaves Miller - Abdelkader - Maltby May, Leino That pains me because I'm loving Miller as well. WHo knows, everyone will be moved around until fits are found

Unfortunately (in a way) he probably does. I'd imagine Miller slides down and Williams plays on the second line. If his legs are slow (even more so than normal) you may see Miller fill in for some shifts but for the most part I'd imagine Williams plays on the second line with: Bertuzzi/Cleary - Filppula - Williams.

I agree...he SHOULD have to earn his spot but that doesnt mean he will.

I'm probably one of the biggest Leino supporters here but I'm not blind to his faults and shortcomings either. Chemistry has as much to do with timing and individual confidence as anything else. To assume that chemistry existed between the way Leino, Filppula and Williams played together at the beginning of the season would still exist today isn't exactly fair. Leino was a different player at that stage. He had had a strong camp and was feeling good about where he was. Things are entirely different now. Now to mention that Filppula and Williams are both different today compared to then. Filppula has shown consistent improvement. He's attacking harder and is far less hesitant in a lot of aspects. He's been taking the puck to the net a lot more lately and that might not boad too well with the perimeter game of Leino. Williams on the other hand will be coming back from a brutal broken leg and it will take time for him to get his stride back. Plus, with his history (his concussion during his last stint with the Wings) he just may not return as the same guy. After his concussion he turned into much more of a perimeter guy, who shyed away from the rough stuff even more than he previously had. This significant injury may have the same affect on him. Plus, the comparison to Howard wasn't meant to be legitimate. It was meant to be used as a means to discredit your assumption. I fully agree with what was said.

Agreed. He's the ultimate jackass if you ask me. He purposes goads Tortarella because Brooks is craving some spotlight and he knows Torts will oblige. What's even worse is that Brooks knows Torts has a line he absolutely cannot cross. Even if by some miracle Torts did cross that line and say something hilariously inappropriate Brooks would still win on two fronts: one, it'd draw a s*** load of attention to Brooks' article the next morning and two, the NHL would fine Torts and fat boy Brooks would giggle and jiggle his fat ass all day long at knowing he just cost Torts a cool chunk of change.

Even if we assume that Howard continues his strong play and gets the bulk of the starts Osgood should get about 8 starts and I think he can definitely win 4. That being said, as well as Howard is playing I think it'd be foolish to assume Osgood wont get more playign time to gear up for the playoffs. Even if Babcock decides Howard is the playoff starter (which you've got to figure the odds are still low of this happenning) he's smart enough to know Osgood needs to get playing time between now and the end of the season to ensure he is in game shape shoudl he come in in relief. Therefore, you've got to imagine 8 would be the minimum number of games Osgood should get in. If anything Howard and Osgood may split 50/50 down the stretch which would give him far more than enough to get his 4 wins. It just doesnt make sense to sit Osgood in the playoffs with the way he has played the last two postseasons.

Despite not reaching potential this year I think Leino is a more talented goal scorer than Filppula. That's by no means to imply he is a better player but I think he has a better nose for the net. Also, I think it was a strategy to try and light a fire under Leino's ass. I made mention of this in another thread a few days ago. I think it would have potentially done wonders for Leino had he been given a chance like this and then scored. For a guy who wants to score goals putting the puck in the net after this long would surely have felt good. It'd remind him what he feels like and hopefully make him want it even more. Plus, the game rested on his shoulders. His confidence would have gotten an automatic boost had he scored. Obviously right now Miller is bring a lot more to the Wings than Leino is. In the short term Miller will be playing before Leino - no question. This will be the same come playoff time too. Miller's style of play and effectiveness will win out all day long. That being said, if it were lose one guy on waivers and hold onto one guy I think the Wings choice, and mine, would be to hold onto Leino. Unfortunately guys like Miller, although not a dime a dozen, are replaceable around the league and it's not usually entirely too difficult to do so. Skill is at a premium and despite not showing much this season Leino still has the potential to turn into a strong scoring threat for the Wings down the line. Fun discussion answer: Keep Leino and lose (as much as it pains me to say) Miller to the waiver wire Real Life Answer: Miller plays before Leino for the rest of the season and 2010 playoffs

Brooks is a fat, disguisting, ****** bag of a human being

Marleau had a good season in his last contract year too. Problem is his playoff performance. At the end of the day he has had great teams and ample opportunity to show up in the post season and he hasn't. So to me he's not worth the money. Plus, if he finally shows up this season San JOse will think he's made the turn and they wont let him walk.

Kronwall will one day be our number #1 guy on the back end. In my opinion that's one reason that we will likely see Lidstrom return next year - to continue to mold Kronwall. I think we'll see Lidstrom pass the torch to Kronwall in a year and a half's time. If it weren't for Kronwall's injury I think he would have emerged, already, as essentially our top guy.

These types of discussions are always tricky because we're trying to make comparisons in different ages of the game. That being said everyone has their biases. Some ppl tend to lean towards the legendary players, whom we never saw play, to pay respect and because they envision pure dominance in their games. While others tend to favor players from the modern era because we can identify with them, we saw them play and have more of an emotional investment in these guys. Which ever way you lean the comparison is always tough. In a lot of ways stats go out the window when drawing a comparison between players of different eras. The game worked differently and has since advanced in a direction that may not have been so easy to predict years ago. To me it all comes down to how players dominate their sport when they play. Growing up I remember seeing Terry Sawchuck's shutout record and thinking that was a record no one would even come close to touching. In today's game to have Martin Brodeur surpass that record I think it an unbelieveable achievement. To me Sawchuck's record was akin to Gretzky's scoring record. But that's my personal bias and because of it in my mind I don't see how Brodeur can't be on this team. Also, in my opinion Lidstrom and Orr were the two greatest d-men to ever play and there's no way I wouldn't put Lidstrom on this list either. Ovechkin still has a lot to prove, but really is heading in the right direction, but for me (and Im a huge Ovechkin fan) to put him on this list would be premature.