mmamolo

Honourable Mentions: Derek Roy Dustin Brown Ryan Suter Brian Campbell(jk) Rick Nash's is $5.4M this year but then it jumps to $7.8M/Yr next year Rick Nash - CapGeek.com

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Granted, the Wings teams Franzen played are were very good but to say Hossa had nothing during his time in Ottawa is kind of a stretch. Ottawa didn't have the playoff success (granted) but they had extremely strong regular season teams. It's not like Hossa had nothing in Ottawa. With Alfredsson, Havlat, Chara, Redden etc they were a good team. Also, in reference to ppl saying Chicago has mortgaged their future; obviously that's a bit of an overstatment. But Drew Miller does raise a good point that aside from that core it is going to be extremely tough to have any type of real depth beyond Kane, Toews, Keith, Bolland, Versteeg, Hossa, Campbell, Barker and Huet. Thats a realyl strong core if you ask me but the Hawks could potentially end up losing/trading Sharp, Byfuglien, Madden, Eager, Burrish, Seabrokk, Hjarlmarsson and Niemi. May not sound like much but it's not nothing either.

What makes you think they are both thinking two year deals? I don't really see how it would benefit Lidstrom. It basically makes him have to commit to two years up front when I hoenstly don't know that he is 100% set on returning even for one. Obviously, if he is eventually going to play two years Holland would want to sign that contract because he'll get cap relief. But I dont know, something seems weird to me

I just like the fact that apparently now we need 16 forwards dressed every game.

Unfortunately we almost have too many depth guys now. Next year Abdelkader will definitely have a full time roster spot. I'd like to see May back. I have a suspiscion Maltby will be back as well. The way Eaves is playing he'll be back. Helm obviously too. I've liked Miller a lot but is there room with everyone? It doesnt seem like it. Personally, I think Hlmstrom may be back as well at a reduced rate. I absolutely cannot see Lebda or Meech being back. Janik seems like he is on his way to being reupped for GR. Larsson and Lidstrom are no brainers (assuming Lids wants to play). We'll be freeing up some money, no doubt. Seeing as Kindl is out of minor league options (i believe) means he'll be up with the club too. Ideally Lilja will be back at say his same contract of $1.25M with Kindl as our 7. I think up front we'll say good bye to Bertuzzi and Williams.

It's my understanding that in the current CBA if a player is over 35 and signs a contract that cap hit counts for the duration of the contract regardless of any possible retirement. Therefore, if Lidstrom were to sign a two year deal for $8M as you mentioned and retires after one year we get a cap hit of $4M the next year regardless. If that rule wasnt in place everyone would sign deals like that. Personally I dont even think it's a guarentee Lidstrom comes back at this point. It's early in the year, the team is struggling, and with the Olympics he is going to be realyl tired come next summer (even without a deep playoff run). If he does come back my guess would be $4-4.5M on a one year deal. I can't see him signing anything but one year deals. There's just no advantage to him or to the team.

It's debatable that Hossa completely outplayed Franzen in the 2008 playoffs. Hossa did have an awesome run but so did Franzen and if it weren't for the injury (concussion I believe in the Colorado series) it woudl have been even better. He had 18 points in 16 games with 13 goals. Not to mention the GWGs and the record he set in the second round. Hossa had a great playoffs in his own right with 26 points in 20 games, with 12 goals. These guys are goal scorers dont forget. Personally I find it hard to believe Hossa 'completely outplayed Franzen' First of all I mentioned how Datsyuk was in the same boat as Hossa to me in last year's playoffs. Secondly, not sayign other ppl haven't done this either, but stats are being displayed in an advantageous format to display the particular point they are trying to make. Plus, in a cap world personally I would rather take Franzen and $1.5M over Hossa...especially in 5 years

On a somewhat related note, has anyone here had issues with spyware/virus on their computers from some of the streams posted on this forum? I've had some spyware issues pop up and I beleive it's from one of the justin.tv streams. Anyone else?

You hit the nail on the head. In a cap world, I agree, Franzen for what he is paid is better than Hossa. but that's a matter of opinion. Problem is Carman likes to focus on one tiny aspect of a discussion and try to hammer it down your thought. You're right, playoffs Franzen is better. Regular season, Hossa is better. money wise you have to like Franzen. If we could have both Im sure everyone would agree we would take them. Aside from Crosby, i bet if you asked pplon this forum if they would take an all star from around they league they would (possibly begrudgingly) accept.

Personally I am not a fan of Crosby and I wasn't a fan of his long before the Wings ever clashed with him int he playoffs. That said, he is one of the premier players in the league. Like him or hate him you can't deny his skill. His penalties are clearly a concern and so his is lack of PP production. The biggest issue simply is that he isn't producing at his normal rate. His current production is good, you can never really argue with approx a pt per game but ppl have come to expect more from him in terms of production. It is interesting to consider how the Penguins do when Malkin is injured compared to when Crosby is injured. There is a lot to be said about having two similar top line centremen on one team. Would the Pens be better off without Crosby? Most likely not. But then again it all depends on the type of return they would get for him. Would the Quebec Nordiques have been better off without Lindros? Clearly...just ask Peter Forsberg. So it's all relative and it depends on your perspective. But by no means does Crosby hurt the Penguins. His overall benefits far outweigh any short comings.

That's exactly the point. I'm not saying Franzen is better than Hossa. It was the poster before who brought upt he comparison of the two simply because of their ability to score goals. All I'm saying is that if you are going to try to compare these two guys it's only fair to gauge them on their recent play. If we're saying who is better today or will be tomorrow it's not fair to judge them on how the played 5 years ago during their development. Again, I agree, still today Hossa is better day in and day out but Franzen produced more and was a bigger impact player in last year's playoffs. Is it fair to say the because Datsyuk (age 31) put up 26 pts in 42 games for Kazan Ak-Bars in 2000-01 while Sergei Samsonov put up 75 pts in 82 games for the Bruins in the same year that Samsonov is the better player? No of course not. You judge them based on what they are doing today. Obviously, this is an extreme example but the point is if you are to compare two players a comparison is time sensitive and we can only judge them on their recent play. Again, today I still beleive Hossa is the better player but bringing up history and point totals from 5 years ago is all but irrelevant in comparing who is the better player now. If you want to talk about who has been the better player over their career, then fine, obviously bring up their past. Even the ppl who think Franzen is better, I doubt they are 'happy' Hossa is gone. I think if you asked anyone if they would have wanted to keep both Hossa and Franzen most would say yes. If they say no well they are just beign ignorant. Also, anyone who questions Hossa's effort lst year is grasping at straws to try and makehim look bad. His effort was there but his production in the playoffs wasn't as strong as we would have hoped, especially for what he was being paid (just as Datsyuk's wasn't). That being said, aside from the 02-03 ( 18 games, 5 goals, 11 assists) and the 07-08 playoffs (20 games, 12 goals, 14 assists) Hossa hasn't exactly produced to the levels you would like to see him produce at int he playoffs. I think that's the only real issue anyone really has with him. But as a Wings fan if we had had the chance to keep both him and Franzen I would have jumped all over it. That being said, I think Franzen's contract may be a better deal cap wise.

This thread has turned a little ridiculous but I do have a couple things to add. 1. Whoever said Ovechkin - Backstrom - Semin is the best line in hockey is absolutely right. Hossa - Toews - Kane is right up there but still, Washington's line is absolutely filthy. 2. Hossa was absolutely sick in the playoffs for the Pens in 08. Unfortunately he was injured for us last year but to me it wasn't the lack of points or effort that was frustrating at times it was that he seemed invisible on the ice most games (even if he picked up an assist or two). He reminded me of his days in Ottawa. Personally, to me it was just an unfortunate situation because I did feel like he could do more but I wouldnt go so far as to bash him because the extent of an injury can be far more dehabilitating than we know, even now. 3. We have to call it like it is. Was I disappointed in Hossa's output? Sure. Was I disappointed in Datsyuk's? Yes, but not to the same extent. To me Datsyuk had a far greater impact on games day in and day out than Hossa did in last year's playoffs. But it's true, both could have put up more points. 4. Comparing Hossa to Datsyuk in last year's playoffs is all fine and good but comparing him to Holmstrom (who was also hurt), Cleary and Filppula is a little far fetched. Not one of those last three are anywhere near expected to produce at the rate Hossa is and yet Cleary and Filppula did. Hossa was not only paid more but had more opportunity than those two. So to me that's an unfair comparison. 5. Lastly, comparing Hossa's development to that of Franzen's is kind of unfair as well. Ppl develop at different rates and are given different oppotunities along the way. I think the only fair way to compare them is on their recent past. Comparing what Hossa has done in his prime vs. what Franzen has done during his ascendence to his prime isnt fair.

Definitely pretty interesting. But Jesus, 16 teams out 36 make the playoffs? That's harsh for those non-playoff teams. I understand not wanting to expand the playoffs but sooner or later it's goign to feel like baseball. But I do liek that the Wings would finally be playing int heir appropriate time zone.

Friday: Montreal @ Washington Boston @ Buffalo Florida @ Detroit NY Islanders @ Minnesota Colorado @ Vancouver Philadelphia @ San Jose Saturday: Calgary @ Los Angeles Washington @ Toronto Detroit @ Montreal Buffalo @ Ottawa Florida @ NY Rangers Tampa Bay @ Carolina Pittsburgh @ Atlanta NY Islanders @ St Louis Columbus @ Nashville New Jersey @ Dallas Philadelphia @ Phoenix Chicago @ Edmonton San Jose @ Anaheim Sunday: Tampa Bay @ Atlanta Chicago @ Vancouver

It's also pathetic how under time pressure suddenyl I forget how to spell so many players names

In all fairness that thread is about conspiracy vs competancy. But it did veer towards that topic.

You wuold really have Pavelski as your second line centre while Stastny plays third line minutes? That's amazing to me. Hell, I'd probably want Stastny on the first line ahead of Kesler even. At the end of the day I don't know how Pominville isn't on this team. He is the man. He's got leadership, a good work ethic, and scorign ability. Drury could work his way onto this team just because of his leaderhip abilities and with so many young players it'd be good to have a veteran pressence. With Gionta's injury he is all but not going to make it and I don't think Gomez has much of a shot against some others who could easily replace him.

I would definitely love to see those numbers. I dont like to cry conspiracy but I defintely think certain players, and indirectly teams, get a bad wrap for this sort of thing. Obviously at times Holmstrom does interfere with goaltenders and by extension then gets some poor calls against him. I remember the phantom goaltender interference call against Dallas in the 08 WCF when Holmstroms butt was apparently crossing the imaginary plane of the crease. No contact was made between players and yet the goal was disallowed. Same idea here, I definitely do think that certain players get the benefit of the doubt at times while others do not. Think if Sean Avery was accused of making racist comments and he denied it he would get the benefit of the doubt? No way. Think when Chris Simon is up for suspension he gets the benefit of the doubt? No way. But when Chris Pronger stomps someone's unprotected leg it was accidental and the league gives him the benefit of the doubt. It's just the nature of the beast. Some teams and some players get it and some don't.

Brad May calls the call a joke: RedWingsCentral

Incompentance. As a few ppl have said the 'intent to blow the whistle' rule is really stupid. The fact that Larue had no reason to blow that play dead, as the puck crossed the line directly from a shot, just depicts the overly large grey area this rule creates. A lot of the NHL's rules are overly grey and they are used to protect refs and front office decisions. When a rule is as grey as this one you can spin it to fit your situation and hide your incompetance. One thing I will say on the whole conspiracy, and in reference to the yahoo article link that was posted, where it claims that the NHL wouldn't want Detroit not to succeed because of their stars, ratings etc. Persaonlly I think the NHL wants more diversity. PPl don't want to see the same team win over and over again. I can understand some conspiracy theorists points of views because the more you think about it the more youc an see how the NHL wants teams in non-traditional hockey markets to go deep in the playoffs and for the perennial contenders to be beaten by these teams. I don't think it's a coincidence that Carolina and Anaheim won cups right out of the lockout. I'm not saying it was a conspiracy per say, but a little guidance here and there doesnt hurt. At the end of the day I think ppl could accept bad calls if there was some owness. The NHL makes all these references to human error in the rule book and yet they never seem to acknowledge that their refs made an error in a public forum. If the NHL came out and said that last night's call was wrong it would be a dead issue and I think most would move on. The fact that they'll hide behind the intent rule and never acknowledge the mistake is what pisses ppl off the most, I think.

big surprise there...who didnt see that coming

what a weak f***in penalty call...this is too much man. Im frustrated as f***

I can certainly see, at times like this, why ppl are on the conspiracy train. That call was insanely bad

The intent to blow the whistle isn't even relevant on this play. DUring a scrum when a ref loses sight of the puck his intent is what matters. Here the puck is clearly in play, May takes a backhand and it's in the net. That was blatant. That is the worst blwon call I have seen in a long, long time.