mmamolo

I think Sundin, Filppula and Cleary would all rotate in on the 2nd and 3rd line. I think Sundin wuodl for sure be on the second PP unit but they woudl want to keep his minutes a little lower during the regular season as they did with Lidstrom last year. It woudl all depend on the chemistry and so on. Soemtimes you might see: Cleary - Filppula - Franzen or Sundin - Filppula - Franzen or Cleary - Sundin - Franzen Hell, you may even see Leino get some time up on the Second. I think you'd see: Leino - Filppula - Franzen Cleary - Sundin - Helm Stuff like that. I dont think it should be looked at true 2nd and 3rd lines. They could be used interchangedly.

I agree. I just dont see the use of signing another grinder when you can fill that gap by getting more games in for Abdelkader. I would much rather see Sundin signed and have him float between the second and third line while dropping Cleary to the 3rd more often than not and making use of Meech up front from time to time and Abdelkader fro mGR from time to time. But hey, that's just me.

Obviously they COULD. But I could just as easily say any of those turnovers could have worked as outlet passed and we coudl have scored. That's pointless. What I said was I would rather five small turnovers that DONT result in goals than one horrible one that does. Im referring to the quality of turnovers. There is a difference between someone turning the puck over in the corner while maintaining position on the player, then boxing him out and snuffing the play and Lilja's turnover to Selanne in the 07 playoffs. Quality of turnovers is what I was referring to.

I really think Ericsson has a ton of upside. He moves incredibly well for a guy his size, he has a bomb from the point, he can move the puck and he doesnt take s*** from anyone. I really think that over the course of the next two or three years we're going to see him turn into a stud on our blueline. I think him and Kronwall are the future of our blueline as it stands right now with Stuart remaining a solid 3/4 guy.

It's true that Ericsson turns the puck over at times but he also seems to recover the puck better than Lilja. I didn't look up the numbers on take aways but it seems to me that when Ericsson turns the puck over he doesnt get beat afterwards. But your argument is fair enough. Helm being the Wings 8th option on the PK is kind of beside the point when talking about him being lost in the defensive end. If you want to talk about his defensive prowess let's talk face-offs, man on man coverage etc. He is strong on the draw, and even when losing he battles hard, and his speed keeps him in line with his man. You're definitely right that he doesn't score often, although give him credit he seems to get some timely goals like game 7 against anaheim, nor put up tons of points but again that has nothign to do with you saying he seems lost in his own end. I guess we just see it a little differently. I see turnovers as a quality issue while you see it as a quantity issue. To me I would rather five bad turnovers that dont result in a goal compared to one horrible one that results in a deflating goal. Dont get me wrong though, I by no means am saying that Lilja is bad, Im actually a big fan of his.

I agree with what you are saying abotu potentially signing Sundin for a dollar value that makes sense but you are dreaming if you think he'd sign for 900K plus bonuses. Hoenstly, I cant see the guy signing for less than $2.5 and even that is a stretch. I could be wrong but for god's sakes, I wouldnt even sign with the Wings for 900k

I wasnt making an argument as to bring him back. Just because his numbers have declined doesnt explain why ppl were bashing him during his last couple of years in Detroit. Obviously with age his numbers will decrease. You shouldnt be gauging a player relative to his past numbers. You should be gauging him on what he brings to you now vs. his cost. It's a cost-benefit issue. Shanahan today at 500k if he puts up 10 g, 20 a, is close to a plus player and brings leadership then he'd be worth it for sure. If you don't think he can bring those things then that's another issue. EIther way, dont judge him relative to his previous success. Judge him based on what he brings today for what it costs us today.

Every year the Wings start a little slowly and I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen again this season. That being said, no matter how hot they start off the season there is no way they win 61 games. That's ridiculous. I know they won 62 before but with the amount of games to play within their division I just don't see it happening. It's too competitive. Everyone bashed the Central for being the weakest division in hockey for so long but last year, in my opinion it was at least one of the two strognest. We ended up with four playoff teams. When does that ever happen? I think we're going to see big strides from Kronwall this year too. I think he'll put up strong offensive numbers like last year but his defensive game stabilizes. Even though it seems like most ppl wont agree I do have confidence in Howard as our backup. I think he'll get his 10-15 wins and he'll have a save % right at 900 or so and a 2.5 gaa or so. I really think he'll step up accordingly.

1. No goalie in today's game should ever play that many games. No way they have enough gas in the tank to make any sort of deep playoff run. 2. Kiprusoff is a very good goalie. But I dont think he is elite. Really I think there are a handful of truly elite goaltenders in this league. Maybe Kiprusoff is on the bubble but with guys like Lundqvist, Backstrom, Luongo, and Brodeur around it's hard to rate Kiprusoff as highly just based on his inconsistency. Give credit where credit is due, when he is on he can easily steal games. 3. This is Filppula's chance to have a breakout year. He's going to get the ice time, the linemates and all the opportunity in the world to prove his worth. I think by the end of this season he will prove that he is worth the $3M he is making. Moving into the last three years of his deal I think we're all going to be laughing at what a steal he will be at that cap hit, just like we were with Zetterberg this and last year at a cap hit of ~$2.65M.

Although Lilja isn't where he'd like to be I think it's a little premature to be thinking his career is over. If he does end up not being able to play again he'll be added to the long list of injured Wings defensemen who's careers were cut short. Konstantinov Fischer Krupp Hatcher Hopefully Lilja makes a return, eve nif he has to sit out most of this season to recover. I think he's a very valuable asset to this team and I always liked the guy.

Egroen, although I agree with a lot of what you said I have to disagree with a couple of things. First, I really don't think that Lilja is better defensively than Ericsson. I'll give credit where it's due, Lilja is a good shot blocker, works hard on the PK but his turnovers are terrible and although Ericsson isn't the fastest guy in the word I think he has a step or two on Lilja. Secondly, I really disagree with you saying Helm is lost in his own end. This guy is all over the place, he creates turnovers and moves the puck out quickly. I really think he fits the mold of a Red Wing centre perfectly.

Obviously money is a factor but at the right price I realy wouldnt mind seeing the Wings sign Mats. I don't understand the constant bashing of him either. I live in the Toronto area so I've seen a s*** load of Leaf games and I'll be the first to say that I am not only a Leaf hater but I was the furthest thing from a fan of Mats Sundin. I always beleived that Mats Sundin is one of those bubble players. He wanted to get paid like a legit stud 1st liner but at the end of the day you wouldnt be winning any championships on his back. In a lot of ppl's minds he was too good to be a second line centre so he was played as a first. Now that he has tapered off a little bit and wouldnt command the $ that Vancouver was willing to dish out I think he could fit well on a team like Detroit where he wouldn't be looked upon to be their first, second, or even third go to guy. Also, I'd like to mention how insanely f'ed Vancouver would have been had Sundin accepted the 2 year $20M offer last year. The Sedins would have been gone and Vancouver would have been in an insanely bad position. That being sad, at $2-2.5M I'd probably take Mats. Ofcourse, I doubt he'd take that little so it probably wont be happening anyways.

Finally someone realizes exactly what Dallas Drake was to this team. Yes, he played a rough, gritty, and motivated game during the playoffs. He did leave it all out on the ice and got his cup but during the regular season he far from the be all end all everyone is praising him for. Personally, I sincerely doubt Shanahan would come back but if he did you can bet he would not only put up far better numbers than Drake did in his last season but he would play with all the heart he has left. I don't udnerstand the sudden bashing of Shanahan on this board. THat guy busted his ass for our team and I was sad to see him go.

Well there are definitely some options out that that can be fit into the Wings current situation. With Prospal now available due to his buyout from Tampa he could fit in. I personally think Bertuzzi could fit in. If Sundin cam cheap enough he coudl fit in. Or you could go the route of getting a Mike Grier. Hell i even think Shanahan would fit in. THere are a lot of options out there for Holland. It just depends what direction he wants to take.

IM not really sold on Mike Grier and certainly not for more than $1m. He had a cap hit of $1.775 last year so I find it hard to believe he'd take that kind of a cut to come to the wings. I think there are better options that make more financial sense. Either someone cheaper who can bring similar qualities or someone more expensive who brings that much more. I dont think Grier is the best bang for your buck out there.

No particular reason. It was arbitrary at that point. I was just saying someone at league minimum would be nice. If you wanted to plus Abdelakader or Greir in you could. Although that would make having a 13th forward a little tougher. But yeah the name (whoever you want to plug in those last spots) doesnt matter. I had just read a list of remaining UFAs and it mentioned he was looking to sign for the league min so it popped into my head. But the point remains the same no matter who you plug into that spot. Persaonlly, no matter who it is I would rather see Abdelkader spend the bulk of the year in GR playing 20+ minutes a night instead of on our 4th line. But thats just my opinion. I think he'd be better served doing so.

yeah I just tried to show the guys that played somewhat regularly but you're right, i listed some earlier ones that werent huge parts of the team so I should have shown Downey and McCarty on the 2008 team. But that only furthers my point. Thanks bud

Although I agree that the wings dont need another top 6 forward I do think if you can get one for $2M or less it's worth jumping on. If you go to capgeek.com and generate a roster by dropping Abdelkader and Lebda and adding Prospal at $2M and another forward at 500k the Wings end up with a little under 700k left in cap space. This ofcourse is with Hudler off the roster. You could sign a guy like Shanahan to play on the 4th with Maltby and Draper while keeping Abdelkader to come up and down. They would even have enough money to keep either McGrath or Oulahan as the 13th forward since so many ppl here seem to love those two guys off. You could have a Roster somethign like: Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Holmstrom Prospal - Filppula - Franzen Clear - Helm - Leino Maltby - Draper - Shanahan Oulahan/McGrath Lidstrom - Rafalski Stuart - Kronwall Ericsson - Lilja Meech Osgood - Howard In doing so you'd have ~180k in cap space. Or they could either move Lilja and keep Lebda and save another ~600k. But that seems unlikely since Meech and Lebda are so somilar and Lilja seems to be the best of the three.

I think it's safe to say that Detroit as a team suffered defensively last year. Look at everyone's +/- compared to the previous season: Lidstrom 08/09 + 31 07/08 +40 = down by 9 Rafalski 08/09 +27 07/08 +17 = down by 10 Datsyuk 08/09 +34 07/08 +41 = down by 7 Zetterberg 08/09 +13 07/08 +30 = down 17 Cleary 08/09 0 07/08 +21 = down 21 Stuart is hard to compare because he spent the baulk of 07/08 with LA but in 9 games with the Wings during the 07/08 season he was +6 and in 08/09 he was -3. I just highlighted some key members of the Wings who had drops in their +/- to show that Kronwall was not the only one. I didn't look through everyone but I am sure some had their +/- go up. I woudl imagine Franzen's went up but I could be wrong. Either way, it wasnt just Kronwall who had a tough defensive year.

If Lilja is on LTIR I dont see Detroit trading Lebda, at least not right away. But say what you wrote makes a lot of sense financially. If you replace Abdelkader with a 500k player you now have 1.9-2.2M to sign Prospal. That is without moving anyone yet.

Forsberg was drafter in 1991, the same year Lindros was I believe. Lindros held out for a year and was traded in 1992 to the FLyers for a package that included Forsberg. Forsberg had yet to play a game in the NHL and didn't until 1994. Forsberg was drafted 6th overall by the FLyers that year and was actually ranked as the 25th best available prospect. So yeah, he was unknown and thought to be a little overrated by the Flyers.

I think that previous post was referring to signing Prospal at half the cost of what it would take to sign Hudler this year, not last. EIther way though I think you're right, it's not happening and Prospal will get $2.5M elsewhere

There is a huge difference between having goons on your roster and tough guys who can play with an edge and are willing to fight. I don't think you'd get an argument from anyone here if Detroit wanted to sign someone like Shanahan was in his prime. He could play, score and fight. But do we need a guy like Boogard? Absolutely not. I think when teams signs goons to boost attendance it's just a cop out. Winning, deep playoff drives and championships will sell tickets more so than short sighted goons. However, personally I do believe that gritty, edgy guys are intrical parts of building championship teams. Look at the lineups of each of the Cup Wins for the Wings: 1997: Shanahan, McCarty, Lapointe, Kocur, Knuble and Konstantinov 1998: same as 1997 minus Vlad 2002:Shanahan, McCarty, Fischer, Chelios, Oluasson 2008: Lilja, Stuart, Kronwall, CLeary, Franzen, DRake Now not all of those guys will fight but they all add grit for sure. It is important and I dont think anyone is disputing that. Also, for the record I hope to god they do not bring back Jason Williams

yeah Im pretty sure it is paid out the same way as it affects the cap. It is kind of funny to see players like Bertuzzi signing with Calgary last year and Jay McKee signing with Pittsburgh take discoutns becaue of their buyouts. Im surprised that you dont see more guys go after their full contract value after a buyout to further capitalize on their situation.

I really do think Sundin and Shanahan would be perfect band-aid to get the Wings through this season. Im not saying we NEED them but I think they would be great additions on 1 year contracts. I realyl don't know what Sundin thinks he is worth or what he would sign in Detroit for but if we could sign one or both of them and not have to move any more bodies than we already plan on doing I would take this step in a heart beat. In my mind Shanahan will sign for the league minimum and if I were Holland I would pounce on that in a second. If Sundin can be had for like $2M i would take it and run. I would much rather sign Sundin at 2 than Prospal around the same. But that's just me